I am 3rd genneration in the Auto Upholstery business, and 1st Generation in the Furniture Upholstery Business. We have only been doing furniture for 15 yrs or so. Cars over 50 yrs. I say we I mean my family. Being in the auto upholstery business included cars, trucks, airplanes, and boats. We did do booths and kitchen chairs at times when I was working at Grandma's Shop. A friend of mine is a dental supply salesman and asked me to recover some dental exam chairs. I priced them like exotic car seats and did very well. Long srory short I have 6 full time in my furniture upholstery shop as well as 6 in my auto upholstery and trim shop. I have been pricing sofa's at $450-$500 labor, Recliners $350. I was told today by one of my favorite supplier that I should charge $75 per yard. I am in the process of putting in a fabric show room. Have all my samples displayed in theis very nice big room. He brought me one of those huge fabric books.
I searched for this before posting. If this topic is here somewhere I apologize...
Its not, So I would like to start and say congratulations on a family run business that has a great run as you mention. Rock on!
A quick reply, I would want or have to base my own production on hours first per day and that I wish could be a dollar a minute minimum no matter what because the machine time cost or my tool time cost needs to be paid 1st.
My producing the product is my experience in that new or old task and how d long before I can get the meal from it. This requires me at my stage to take only projects with time on my side, this is the art for me ( selecting or going to find my jobs ) call it green or picking your fight. haha!
I cant be sure but probably a time chart per style of chair, or bucket seat task in upholstery magazine! as there is a time standard for the marine fabricator and its different styles of products, and its a guideline.
Now ive broke the ice I hope some of the pros that have been doing it all there life can chime in and throw this marine fabricator a rope.
I truly believe we can be glad your here and share some tips with us.
Thank you
Floyd
Many variables to consider...... if your labor costs are high enough per yard ? Cost per square foot for working space - location - pay rate per employee - how busy are you ? Only a few mentions but I'd start there and not think about what a supplier says should be your cost. You have done well keep listening to what your instinct tells you. There is not a standard cost across the board but here in NY a sofa runs $ 700.00 - $ 1000.00 for labor with up charges from there for new padding, foam, spring work, woodwork, retouching, etc.
SA
There are too many variables to give one number or one anything per hour. You have way more experience than most and already know this, not meant as critical for asking. I imagine in spite of your experience and background, by asking already agree how difficult it would be to provide a single number and what does the hour include? There is a lot of time managing a business, outside of actual project business which is significant enough to create a variance in answers.
You have 6 full time in furniture and the same number in auto - does that mean 12 employees or so? Big business, brings the question of location and how big of population being served.
Much of reupholstery is being done in homes and the overhead is different in the case.
I have a formal business, major interstate, shopping all around, my overhead could and most likely is quite different and imagine doing this in NY City! Their cost and for others similar is way high.
So, I haven't answered you question except to say there probably isn't one answer and am thinking you are probably the best expert for the case.
Tell us more about your business - sounds impressive.
Doyle
We have a website www.fisherautotrim.com and a Facebook page Fisher Auto Trim, Glass, & Upholstery.
I'm in Lubbock, Tx. Population about 275,000 and about 1,000,000 in a 100 mile radius.
Before I went all out in the furniture upholstery business, we would get calls constantly for furniture. We started doing all furniture. Some of my car guys had furniture experience so I wasn't very difficult. I love commercial upholstery jobs. Hospital stuff like waiting room chairs, exam beds, journey pads, and room recliners. We just finished 73 room recliners. Re upholster and new foam in the cushions and refinish the wood arms. Priced at $650 ea. The 1st one took about 1/2 a day. At the end we were doing 6 per day. Restaurant booths and chairs. We pick up 3-5 booth cushions at 8am and have them back by 11. For a standard 48" booth cushion I get $66 labor and 1-1.5 yrs at $39.95. A little over $100 ea. Waiting room chairs $125-$175 labor and 1 yrd fabric, usually crypton or something higher end. A single sofa or recliner are where I don't see much profit. $450-$500 labor on a sofa and $350 on a recliner. 1/2 the time the customer wants to bring their own fabric(Thanks to the internet) I have several Interior decorators bringing me stuff constantly, because we get it done faster than anyone else. We are putting in a fabric show room as I type here. My daughter will be in charge of showing fabrics. I have too much to do to stand there while someone wants to look through every book in the building.
I have 12 other employees. I have one since 1976, and one since 1978. My dad and my son work here as well. Ill attach pics of the hospital recliner
Basicly the proper way to figure your hourly charge is to add up all your expenses. Rent, lights, vehicles, insurance payroll and everything else. this will give your your nut. Break the nut into hours worked and you know what you need to make per hour to cover the nut. Then add in your pay, and some pay for the business and you will know what your doing. Not easy but the only way.
I did that about 20 years ago. I remember I was charging $35 per hour labor. After adding everything up I found it was costing me about 33 per hour per employee. I immediatly went up to $45. Not too long after that I got a computer and quickbooks. I entered times for everything we did in the car upholstery and trim business. For instance a padded headliner is 1.5 hours and 2 yds of Padded Headliner material. I generally go up 10% per year on everything in the computer. We're up to about $95 hour. I dont have any furniture upholstery prices in the computer. But I will have soon.
I have found some pretty good price lists on the internet. Google Furniture reupholstery pricing and see some pretty good info and ideas.
Based on what I'm reading, you really don't need any help at all, but I think the reason you've done well is that you're not satisfied to rest on past performance, rather, you want to make sure you are on top of things. Too many of us in this business consider inspecting their business practices (pricing included) to be drudgery and take the attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That attitude eventually shows up as erosion of profits and only after it's done a good bit of damage to the bottom line.
I see you are not afraid to charge enough to turn a profit. $95.00/hr is much closer to what a good upholstery shop should be charging. I've see posts from those who are afraid to go over $40.00 or $50.00/hr and I wonder how they are still in business.
One thing that interests me is how you are able to take such (what I consider anyway) large orders. It's probably not because you're the cheapest guy in town, I'm sure.
Oh, BTW, very nice website.
Keep on doing what you're doing
Rich
So far I have been pricing houshold upholstey by the piece. I did some market research a few yrs back to see what the going rates are on furniture Upholstery around here are. We we're just getting our feet wet and didnt have a tremendous amount of furniture upholstery jobs.Ok now we are so busy doing all this commercial stuff, it makes the household jobs seem like theres no money being made doing a sofa for $500 labor. My supplier came Monday. I showed him my new fabric show room. He was so impressed he gave me one of his giant sized sample books. He said the book cost him $500, and I am the only one in town that has one. He also told me the going rate is $75 - yd labor. Thats sounds good to me/ A sofa that takes 12 yrs will be $900 instead of $500. I am just curious to see what/how all you veteran upholsterers charge. When I 1st started this I went to see a interior designer and gave my card. She informed me she was getting hers done for $10- yd. I said " I guess you better keep doing that, because I am not interested in giving my work away. Probably some old lady doing in her home. Now i have designers bringing me all sorts of stuff. They like how fast we get it done, but I always put them in front of everyone else. We finished 2 very big jobs last month and had been telling everyone else mid jan before we can do theirs. Those jobs totaled about 150 chairs. One thing I have learned is this. When a someone wants a commercial job done, I drop everything and go right over there and bid the job. It's amazing how some shop owners dont have time to go look and bid. One time I bid on 130 chairs and 65 sofas for a motel. He said :I'll let you know, I have 2 more guys coming to bid on this." The next day he called and said " You got the job, neither one of those other guys ever showed up. I guess the were to bust stapling than to go after that job.
Quote from: Rich on January 20, 2016, 04:37:09 am
Based on what I'm reading, you really don't need any help at all, but I think the reason you've done well is that you're not satisfied to rest on past performance, rather, you want to make sure you are on top of things. Too many of us in this business consider inspecting their business practices (pricing included) to be drudgery and take the attitude that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That attitude eventually shows up as erosion of profits and only after it's done a good bit of damage to the bottom line.
I see you are not afraid to charge enough to turn a profit. $95.00/hr is much closer to what a good upholstery shop should be charging. I've see posts from those who are afraid to go over $40.00 or $50.00/hr and I wonder how they are still in business.
One thing that interests me is how you are able to take such (what I consider anyway) large orders. It's probably not because you're the cheapest guy in town, I'm sure.
Oh, BTW, very nice website.
Keep on doing what you're doing
Rich
I found this online. It's a very compressive pricing list. I hope he dont mind me sharing this with Y'all.
http://www.winterssewing.com/node/72
Poppy,
When you do a job in hours mentioned (headliner in 1 1/2 hr., sofa that takes 12 hours), do you do those with multiple workers involved?
How many would be assigned on the headliner and the 12 hour sofa?
The rates of completions this fast suggest multiple workers on each project or piece of a larger project.
If two were assigned to t he headliner job (I am surmising - correct me) then the headliner job would actually bid at 3 hours plus materials? Am I correct how things are computed by your shop rate? Tend to think so, just don't want to assume though.
So the headliner job would translate into $285 labor and two to three yards plus glue, thinner, and shop cleanup cost? Two or three yards somewhere around $50 and glue around $20 bucks plus cleanup cost?
Assuming we are in the ball park on this type of job the cost would run 285 + 50 + 20 bucks totaling $355 plus depending on actual yardage. Does that sound like a routine cost for the routine car (anymore with the new tech incorporated in autos - fewer are routine)?
Look at my logic and understanding of or explanation of your presented information and compare with your actual bids. A headliner job that is typical of these numbers would normally be a 15 or 20 year old car in my shop. These newer cars just take more time, wiring is embedded in the headliner form and it just takes more time to get one in and out without causing damage. We haven't included sun visors in this discussion, I do them and that is another project not to sell short on because often they need internal rebuilding.
You have a very interesting business, I know where your city is located from travels in the past, oil country back then. I agree with the fact that it is easier for a shop like ours to make better off commercial and/or larger volume of repetative work. I do quite a bit of corporate work and seem to do better off volume as described. I have one client with 132 different installations work is brought from.
Regarding Mr. Winters charges, he did a good job of bringing a lot of the details together and what is portrayed in his system is it takes a pretty good review when estimating to cover what work is actually required. I noticed his range of hours (as mine are also) leads thinking to how challenging it is to nail down the exact number of hours a project would cost -- but his estimate formulas are very impressive with the detail.
My thoughts and sure more about your practices would be very interesting, in reality we are in a very competitive business, not as much between shops but with manufacturers as Asia can provide new as a replacement very cheaply.
Doyle
Poppy that's a great find, Stephen is a contributing member here and I consider a leader in the trade.
Very few that spend that amount of time in anything to help the tradesperson and client together.
Clearly an example to follow.
Have a good day everyone
Floyd
I need to ask this and going back relating to my first reply, Does anyone subscribe to an upholstery magazine or any guild that has information on standard times for items.
If a person as me has interest this is in the first needed knowledge ( a time standard to get-r-done ) I would have from the first a method to gauge or measure myself and completed product.
I understand some chat could be in forums and that's fine and appropriate to me, though some measure can be listed for approximate times to complete an upholstery task. I would not want to go off in time n motion stuff now.
More to help this move forward and not get caught and stopped as there are professionals here that could contribute more than they realize. (And many that I haven't seen for awhile that totally Rock!)
Maybe my approach here is blunt but not intended.
Floyd
The 1.5 hrs is for a 1 piece board car padded headliner. It takes a skilled technition about 1.5 hours all by himslef. 2yds PH material. I have never charged for glue, solvent and cllean top. Thats a good idea though. I'll have to mention that to my son. He oversee the auto upholstery. Now, you get into SUVs with all the a/c ducts or cars with a sunroof, pillar posts covered, 1/4 panels covered the labor times increae. A bowed headliner is a completly different story. The can get way up there. $500 or more. I just grabbed that out of the air. I have hundreds of labor times attached to almost everything we do in auto upholster and inteior restoration. I worked for months compiling that information and have fined tuned it every since. I used to call around and see what my competitors were charging to make sure I was competetive, but I quit that a long time ago. I price it the way it makes me money. Auto upholstery is different from furniture in this way. Car seats involve precise cutting and a lot of sewing and then install the cover. Furniture involve cutting out peices not nearly as precise and very little sewing, but a whole lot of installing. Lot of the new furniture coming out is made different. The arms unbolt and are covered separately and the back unbolts and is covered seperatly cover the arms, cover the back, cover the deck and cushions and bollt it all back together. There are certainly a lot of variables on furniture. Pipping/welt skirts, pattern repeats, foam, dacron, frame repair, spring work etc.....
Quote from: DB on January 20, 2016, 06:34:09 am
Poppy,
When you do a job in hours mentioned (headliner in 1 1/2 hr., sofa that takes 12 hours), do you do those with multiple workers involved?
How many would be assigned on the headliner and the 12 hour sofa?
The rates of completions this fast suggest multiple workers on each project or piece of a larger project.
If two were assigned to t he headliner job (I am surmising - correct me) then the headliner job would actually bid at 3 hours plus materials? Am I correct how things are computed by your shop rate? Tend to think so, just don't want to assume though.
So the headliner job would translate into $285 labor and two to three yards plus glue, thinner, and shop cleanup cost? Two or three yards somewhere around $50 and glue around $20 bucks plus cleanup cost?
Assuming we are in the ball park on this type of job the cost would run 285 + 50 + 20 bucks totaling $355 plus depending on actual yardage. Does that sound like a routine cost for the routine car (anymore with the new tech incorporated in autos - fewer are routine)?
Look at my logic and understanding of or explanation of your presented information and compare with your actual bids. A headliner job that is typical of these numbers would normally be a 15 or 20 year old car in my shop. These newer cars just take more time, wiring is embedded in the headliner form and it just takes more time to get one in and out without causing damage. We haven't included sun visors in this discussion, I do them and that is another project not to sell short on because often they need internal rebuilding.
You have a very interesting business, I know where your city is located from travels in the past, oil country back then. I agree with the fact that it is easier for a shop like ours to make better off commercial and/or larger volume of repetative work. I do quite a bit of corporate work and seem to do better off volume as described. I have one client with 132 different installations work is brought from.
Regarding Mr. Winters charges, he did a good job of bringing a lot of the details together and what is portrayed in his system is it takes a pretty good review when estimating to cover what work is actually required. I noticed his range of hours (as mine are also) leads thinking to how challenging it is to nail down the exact number of hours a project would cost -- but his estimate formulas are very impressive with the detail.
My thoughts and sure more about your practices would be very interesting, in reality we are in a very competitive business, not as much between shops but with manufacturers as Asia can provide new as a replacement very cheaply.
Doyle
Like to mention I received the mail today a magazine and well looked at, rolled open as being of interest. I hope they recall where they delivered it when they need a cover, and only time will tell.
anyhow
My January issue of Marine Fabricator, "with" Time Standards Manual !
How is that for todays conversations, pretty cool eh!
The concept of Standard Times is not competition to us but more "for" the trade, I wont go into my past work but this method of time-task is, was, and will continue to be the Payer. If we think its top secret stuff we should keep it hid, but then why talk at all.
I know there is other magazines from this group but cannot say if anything like this standard is used but do suspect. I'm sure the many books on upholstery I have seen to be sold have some mention in task time schedules, and accepted primarily because development is from a respected sources.
thanks for the great post
Floyd
Mr. Stephen Winters has done a good job (full of good detail) on time estimates for furniture reupholstery.
I challenge anyone to really study what he has presented because to just read and think a lot of information here.....good!
There is so much more information embedded in his work. He has a decent start on estimating reupholstery on newer furniture (20 years or less) because when he addresses a subject notice that he points out the variances and how they add time. For example he mentioned cushions and addressed everything from a removable box cushion to a fixed (non removable) cushion on an arm, on an integrated attached backrest cushion(s) on a love seat and sofa. He even addressed the non removable bottom seat cushion that is attached to a recliner on a sofa or love. Yes, times have changed in the furnitue industry, like most or all others. Recliners are every where in concepts where they never have been before. Like my first example, attached pillow top cushions on arms of furniture. These cushions are integrated before they ever see the chair/sofa/love seat frame - please understand my point is, they are equipped with zippers to facilitate filling and integrate into the arm unholstery (sewn together).
Now, hopefully with that understanding one who has encountered reupholstering such or even making repairs, clearly understands my point. It is not unusual to encounter an integrated set of backrest cushions accomplished with that technique. No longer is furniture made by applying one layer at a time. I just finished a large leather couch with everything integrated, that is it was fully sewn before anything was stapled to the frame.
For those who think furniture technology is simpler than say auto, well........please get involved in where the furnitue technology has evolved .
Things have changed, that is why none of us will every know it all because technology producing whatever is never constant. Well in one understanding it is "constant", it is constantly changing.
It matters not what upholstery dimension one is engaged in----aviation, marine, auto, furniture, commercial, the technology from whence it came is constantly changing.
I have worked, literally in every dimension and don't know it all yet!!!!!!!!!!
Enjoy and get those timing estimates as good as can. Just remember there is no statistical probability of accuracy attached to any time charts you read. For the less technical what is being said, there are variances to any value from any time schedule you pick up and read. They are literally estimates and there is no statistical sigma qualifier attach to say how accurate the estimates are.
There are so many variances to all that we do, because it is still done by, at least partly by human and so on and on.
Sorry if I bored you,
BTW, we are on a subject that Bobbin (with her factory production background) fully understands. It would delight me if she would come across and enlighten ...
Thanks for your attention,
Doyle
Great post Doyle, I will also agree first several members here having been in pro and factory production, and wished to hear from a bit.
Moving on, as you mentioned Stephens method of item specific, many of these are in my time standard manual might well be counted as or in an option category so better able to keep the main a Standard.
Trying best by professionals to initially structure it that way knowing not planning that way would take like 5000 dictionary type volumes.
So one could better add these options and be more accurate in the model designed.
In another arena it might be me designing these structures best but in this present field of study I recommend yourself and several others for setting up a method in upholstery time task.
Its a process and I'm mechanical so I consider it just another gear tooth.
good eve
Floyd
I worked for a fellow in South Florida. He owned a large warehouse and was a workroom to the trade only. He employed 10 people. This included 5 drapery ladies, two furniture upholsterers, a secretary, 2 delivery guys and a salesman. He was strictly a businessman. He never picked up a staple gun in his life. Wouldn't know what to do with it if he did.
He started as an installer and over the years built up a pretty nice business. Working mostly for high end designers in West Palm Beach. You can imagine when he added recovering furniture to his business he didn't have a clue what to charge. So here is what he did.
With each piece of furniture came a work order. On it was the designers name, fabric swatch marked with correct side and which way was up and any changes the customer wanted. On it was a spot for start time and finish time but I always just wrote how much time it took. There was also room for any extra work done to finish the job, like spring work, frame work or replacing foam. This gave him pinpoint information as to how much time different styles of furniture take. All he had to figure was overhead which is pretty easy for anyone with a little math skills.
As for pricing by the yard, I always considered this an inaccurate way to calculate labor. I've seen pieces that only take 2 yards but took 4 or 5 hours to upholster. On a large job like a sectional you could be off by a couple hundred dollars. To me charging by the yard is for people who are too mentally lazy to figure their prices as described above.
While on the subject of labor requirements -
Are any doing reupholstering on these (mostly imports) sofa/love seats with recliners at both ends?
The backrest and often the arm rest are equipped with overstuffed attached pillow type construction.
It would be informative to hear what your hours are running up to?
A few doing upholstery have said they won't touch them because of the time factor and
lower cost for new coming out of Asia.
Doyle
This is a lot of great information for me. I really appreciate everyone's input on this subject. I wasn't sure if I would get any response at all when I joined this forum and this was my 1st post. I am very serious about my business. I love to go to work evry day. I was getting pretty apathetic with my Auto Upholstey. It made me a good living, but I have been doing it so long (48 yrs)it seems like I have done it all and seen it all. I still get a little excited when certain vintage cars come in the shop. I have always loved it when a customer flips out on the work we do to their car. Starting the furniture business was a good change for me. I feel reenergized and excited to go to work. I love restoring someones family heirloom, but also love doing 100 identical chairs and engineering a system to get them done quickly. We call it "Gang Bang" I have 3 veteran upholsterers and 2 young guys that all seem to love their jobs. I read "The art of being a good leader is getting someone to do what you want, and them wanting to do it" My new fabric show Room is almost ready. If I can figure how, I will post pics of it.
Quote from: DB on January 25, 2016, 06:02:32 am
A few doing upholstery have said they won't touch them because of the time factor and
lower cost for new coming out of Asia.
Doyle
Haven't done one in over 10 years because of the reason you stated. For me they easily take 30 to 36 hours or longer. But then I strip to the frame and pick apart all those bustles and pillow tops to use for a pattern. I put it back together just like it was. Also It'll take two strong guys to pick that heavy thing up. This is why I don't even try to compete with the cheap stuff coming out of China. I'd rather do a piece I can make money on and leave jobs like that for someone who's a little more hungry.
I couldnt get the pics to upload for some reason. I put them on facebook and here's the link to pics of my new Fabric show room. Tell me what Y'all think...
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1091055450952671.1073741838.447268731998016&type=3
I see how you deserve your user name -
It's a Class Act - Nice desk and bar - I will forward my resume -
SA
Pricing your labor has been the primary focus on this subject. But, to bring some reality into this pricing thought, how many give detailed estimates or as a starter use ball park numbers?
I have found it is .........well a somewhat screening method toward an actual sale?
Our time is a limited quantity and how we use it does come important.
How is it handled in your shop.........do you detail it off the bat and baby sit the customer through numerous samples/discussions?
Those don't pay for me.......
Doyle
I totally agree. I don't have time to sit there while some lady looks through every sample book I have. They finally pick out something and I call and it has been discontinued! Frustrates the hell out of me! I have told customers to go get their fabric at Joanns or Hobby Lobby, because I don't want to show them everything. I make much more when I supply the material. I have all my samples in a dedicated room, or Showroom. My Daughter is in charge of showing material. I pay her $10 hr plus commision on anything she sells. I charge the customer $10-yd to use their fabric.
Quote from: DB on January 31, 2016, 06:20:29 am
Pricing your labor has been the primary focus on this subject. But, to bring some reality into this pricing thought, how many give detailed estimates or as a starter use ball park numbers?
I have found it is .........well a somewhat screening method toward an actual sale?
Our time is a limited quantity and how we use it does come important.
How is it handled in your shop.........do you detail it off the bat and baby sit the customer through numerous samples/discussions?
Those don't pay for me.......
Doyle
So its off the cuff I take it, for you guys.
Is that what I'm gathering
Floyd
Off the cuff? What is that?
Quote from: brmax on January 31, 2016, 06:23:33 pm
So its off the cuff I take it, for you guys.
Is that what I'm gathering
Floyd
I mean the pricing is said from experience in the beginning and that's it, or how is it actually done and then afterward on clients invoice.
I guess that is the more important answer, whats on the invoice.
Are certain job types standard pricing, and "mentioned off the cuff " 50 bucks, then later finalized a bit with quantity of yards, paint, misc. adding to 50.00 on the invoice.
I understood each level of money job can vary a relative amount, say 5 on 50. in a task type job and not inclined to use certain invoices.
have a good day everyone
Floyd
I charge my labor by the hour. I charge materials at a 50%MU. Appropriate taxes on both. I've been working in the trade for a long time now. I know how much I want to "net". My prices reflect the above!
I have been pricing labor by the piece, but my prices have gone up a bit since I have done some research and found some other shops pricing online. I was charging $450-$500 on a sofa, 400 on a love seat, $350 on a recliner, $300 on a wingback or living room chair. I have raised my prices at least $50. I charge retail on material, my prices is 1/2 that usually. Of course extra for new foam for the cushions, nail heads, spring repair, wood repair, wood refinishing, etc...,, I dont know exactly how to charge for dacron though.
Like you, we charge for items that are exclusive to that piece of furniture. Wood repair, spring work, etc. For other miscellaneous supplies we average into the cost of each piece. Items like Dacron, staples, button twine, etc. A chair for instance, on average takes a certain amount of supplies. The Same with a sofa and a love seat.
Items like webbing and spring up twine are included in the extra cost of spring work.
Just curious Poppy. Do you pay your employees by the piece or by the hour. The reason I ask is I was once offered a job that payed by the piece. I would earn 1/2 of the labor for each piece I did. As I considered this employment opportunity I thought, my wages will depend strictly on what the business owner charges for the work. Then I thought what if he charges below the average market price? This would mean my wages would also be below the average market price. So I asked the guy what he charged for a wing chair. $350. This meant I'd make $175. I did a little quick math and discovered I'd be making 13 to 15 $ an hour. When I told him I generally make closer to $20 he said, wow, you would really have to hump it to make that much here. At the same time I was thinking you don't charge enough. I concluded that paying by the piece must be tough for a business owner to balance paying their employees a fair wage and giving their customer a fair price.
I pay my employees by the hour. I tried commission several years ago. I was tired of some employees walking around looking at the ceiling so I put them all on commission. I thought my probllems were solved untill I started getting comebacks and customers unhappy with our work. This didn't work for me. I have a reputation to uphold. I used to advertise a lot, but not much anymore. Word of mouth took hold and people come in constantly saying " I heard Y'all are the best. I asked 2-3 people and they all said to come here" No matter what I charge, the charges include the best job we can do. I pay most of my employees between $15-$20 per hour. I have one that has been with me since 1976 and another since 1978. The rest over 10 yrs except I have a few that have been there 2-3 yrs. The art to being a good boss is Getting people to do what you want them to do and them wanting to do it. Always do what you say your going to do and don't make promises you cant keep.
Quote from: kodydog on February 02, 2016, 05:11:31 am
........I was once offered a job that payed by the piece. I would earn 1/2 of the labor for each piece I did. As I considered this employment opportunity I thought, my wages will depend strictly on what the business owner charges for the work.......... So I asked the guy what he charged for a wing chair. $350. This meant I'd make $175.
I knew a shop owner that paid like that (half labor). When customers balked at the overall price, he would simply discount the labor, and make it up on material sales (since he didn't have to share the material profits with the upholsterer). So he was using his employee's salary as a negotiating tool. Basically giving away money that wasn't his to give.
This talk about paying by the piece or by the hour always makes me think of my barber. He still has the old fashioned downtown barber shop. He charges $12 for a haircut. It usually takes him 45 minutes, even if the client only has a half dozen hairs on his entire head. The girls in the beauty shops can get it done in 10 minutes, and make $15. I usually end up going to one of them. The old man's shop usually has 2 or 3 geezers ahead of me, and I just can't kill half a day for a haircut.
I know I'm bumping an old thread but one of my first business partners told me to try and obtain a 4x multiple on job costs to get the sales price. For a service business, that works out pretty well. If you are doing the work yourself, you should figure what it costs to hire an upholsterer in your area and pretend your paying him to do the work instead of yourself.
For COM jobs, I've met several shop owners who charge a COM fee per yard. They explain to their clients that they roll out the fabric, inspect for damage & flaws, and are always taking a risk (customer's fabric in your shop becomes a liability to you)... That justifies the fee. $7/$8 per yard is a reasonable fee but can range from $5-$10. Basically, it covers what you lost by not selling them the fabric. You can also bury this fee in the labor cost if you know up front it's a COM job but most times you don't.
As for commercial jobs, LOVE THEM. After 10 dining chairs or 10 whatevers, the shop efficiency goes through the roof. We get a lot of hotel jobs.
Quote from: crosjn on March 30, 2016, 08:48:04 am
As for commercial jobs, LOVE THEM. After 10 dining chairs or 10 whatevers, the shop efficiency goes through the roof. We get a lot of hotel jobs.
That's interesting Crosin, when you quote for a Hotel do you keep this change in efficiency in mind. I'm saying do you charge the normal rate for the first 10 chairs and a discounted rate for the chairs following or do you charge the same rate for all the chairs and put the profit in your pocket. No mater how much schmoozing I do I haven't done a hotel job in years and am pretty sure its because the competition always under bids me. Maybe I'm not thinking right.
Quote from: kodydog on March 30, 2016, 10:03:12 am
That's interesting Crosin, when you quote for a Hotel do you keep this change in efficiency in mind. I'm saying do you charge the normal rate for the first 10 chairs and a discounted rate for the chairs following or do you charge the same rate for all the chairs and put the profit in your pocket. No mater how much schmoozing I do I haven't done a hotel job in years and am pretty sure its because the competition always under bids me. Maybe I'm not thinking right.
My bid price reflects the efficiency, and specifically to your point I price all the items in the job as if I'm efficient. It follows the old advice that you never pass your problems on to your clients. That I'm inefficient to start is my problem. I never think "Am I loosing money on one piece?" I always think "am I making money on the project?" I've been running the shop for 12yrs and we do usually 2-3 big jobs (like $80k+) a year so we've got some experience. A 2-man crew can strip, tack up and finish (stuff cushions) in just about 2hrs once we're moving. (We cut and sew everything in advance but I know the costs involved in that pretty well too.)
To tackle big jobs, I think in mass. I get a sample piece. I sometimes offer to do the sample for free in fact because it teaches me a lot about how to bid. I break it down into phases, cutting, sewing, tacking, touch up. (That's actually the division of labor in our shop too.) I then tackle each phase as fast as possible but completing each phase before moving on. That tells me what each laborer can do (cutting is a little different because when we cut a big job we're rolling out multiple layers and using a bigger electric cutter, but I generally assume $1/per piece to cut is about right...) Tracking each task and not trying to multitask makes it very clear to me what each phase costs.
The reason I don't jump around like I normally would is that you loose a lot of efficiency moving around the shop, stopping and starting, etc... Even simple things like setting down the stapler and walking over to the sewing machine to sit down...
If you spend the time up front to shmooze / form relationships, do you go back after you aren't awarded the job and ask why you weren't? Commercial work involves a lot of factors - insurance, trust, confidence, price, previous history, etc... I find once I'm the embedded vendor, price is usually not the deciding factor.
I find once I'm the embedded vendor, price is usually not the deciding factor.
Often, that is what happens. Consumers like to know who they are dealing with and what to expect.
Doyle