I have a job coming up next week, its 5 chiropractic tables. They are sectioned into 5-7 pieces, hand rest, middle, lower and leg sections. I am thinking it's straight forward. I just don't want to get burned if I quote about $200 a table plus material. Or do I do one table and give him a price for the rest ??
Not the end of the world if I'm off a bit, but as always I respect all the opinions on this board.
Thanks,
Ed
Some of the older ones tend to have stripped screws and bolts, spinning T-nuts, etc. So if it is falling on you to go to the office and remove the pieces, you might factor a little extra "aggravation time" in your estimate.
Otherwise, $200 plus material should cover you nicely.
If they are not hydraulic take the complete table. If you run into trouble the customer doesn't see the work involved and how you do it. Also it keeps the office clean and they would prefer not to have a mess. And you will have the tools you may need. Your price seems a bit low to me but that would depend on where your market is.
keep in mind that these tables sell used for around $6k. The pads are just covered with four side seams and chased around the edges with marine hidem. The nail heads are not orig.
Zane
the main issue is that they are giant and weigh a ton.
Zane, you're right about the weight. There is no way I am taking the tables with me. I will remove the pads there and keep my fingers crossed nothing strips out...lol Cool so $200 sounds good, I appreciate the input on that. I will post some pictures here soon, waiting for vinyl to arrive and then I will have at it.
How much is a new table? Have you done one before? Sounds like a recipe to lose $$ to me.
Do the first on time and materials then give a discount for doing all of them. Or do the first
for $200, track your time and let the customer know the price for the remaining will be
adjusted accordingly. If they think the price adjustment isn't worth it then you've only lost
on one chair.
DBR,
if someone pulled that stunt on me, I would put them out of business.
ZGP
The cost of a new table is irrelevant IMO.I can however see DBR's point that {if no price has already been quoted} Ed could speak to the customer and explain that while the upholstery principles are old hat he hasn't done one of these in a while,and can't remember exactly how long the last one took, so would like to do one to make sure that his estimate of $200 is fair to everyone.
As a consumer with a "niche" project like this I would certainly understand, and I'd respect his honesty. Who knows---it might even be a wee bit less :-\
I can see Zane's take on this as well---you obviously couldn't do this after a quote was given.
Quote from: zanepurcell on January 11, 2013, 04:02:52 pm
DBR,
if someone pulled that stunt on me, I would put them out of business.
ZGP
What stunt? Agree to do the first one for $200 with the understanding that if it actually
takes more time than anticipated he will let the customer know before proceeeding. The
customer will be in control of going forward and HV will protect himself from a loss. If HV
has never done one of these before he has to protect himself from losses and will be
upfront and honest with the customer.
I don't know how you read my post but no bad intent was presented on my part.
Quote from: DBR1957 on January 11, 2013, 05:37:07 pm
Quote from: zanepurcell on January 11, 2013, 04:02:52 pm
DBR,
if someone pulled that stunt on me, I would put them out of business.
ZGP
What stunt? Agree to do the first one for $200 with the understanding that if it actually
takes more time than anticipated he will let the customer know before proceeeding. The
customer will be in control of going forward and HV will protect himself from a loss. If HV
has never done one of these before he has to protect himself from losses and will be
upfront and honest with the customer.
I don't know how you read my post but no bad intent was presented on my part. Next time
I will spell it out for you.
Well, the reason I made this post wasn't to get anyone upset. I think no matter what trade your in, you run the risk of a job eating your lunch. So in order to help avoid that, you get as much info as you can. You guys on this board have seen and done just about everything out there... So if I said $200 and it was way of line, I knowyou guys would let me know.
Ed
Quote from: Highvelocity on January 14, 2013, 07:50:11 am
So if I said $200 and it was way of line, I knowyou guys would let me know.
Like Paul said, what seems about right in one part of the country may seem low in another.
I've done those tables before for around $350 vinyl included. Sometimes I wish that I'd gotten a little more to cover all the aggravation of stripped screws and bolts.
ill do one seat on a boat probly smaller one piece for about $200 no foam do you also have to add new foam?
Hey Mike, no just doing skins, no foam. But based on what your saying, and what I am hearing from Sofadoc, I may go $250 or $300.
Mike, I just spoke with the customer yesterday. I went $300 plus material and he didn't even blink. Gave me the check for 2 tables to start...plus 10 yrds material...
Thanks Sofadoc....you seem to be right on the money with that quote. I will be at $350 with material. I would have come in too low and regretted it. For some reason, I have a tendency to come in too low, so I always like to check with the gang...
Thanks Again,
Ed
I finished 2 tables in 10 hours soup to nuts. I used this Allsport 4 way stretch vinyl, its a marine vinyl. This stuff was the easiest vinyl to work with, that I have ever used. So easy to pull, and eliminate wrinkles. BUT, it's pricey...$24.80 a yard.
So to sum up, had I gone with $200 a table I would have kicked myself...
Thanks,
Ed
glad it worked out did you need the allsport ? regular vinyl goes a long way with a heat gun.
sometimes I a bit low wanting the job I went up 200 at the last minute on aaa cover bid anf the guy was ok lets do it and I had one guy ofeer me 100 more ,not to get it quick but he was a working guy and he thought I was low and said just do a nice job
He liked the color from the sailrite site, so we went with it. But WOW what an easy product to work with...
Glad to see it worked out for everyone.
Allsport is nice stuff but like you say it's not cheap.That's why I generally only use it on ATV seats to avoid all the seams you'd need if you used the same vinyl as a snowmobile seat.
I used Allsport on my own boat interior. It was tricky as I was using several different types of vinyl and stitching them together. The 4 way bias on Allsport makes you pay close attention when sewing into other vinyls.
I love the stuff and yes it is priced crazy.
Chris
The only problem I see with using Allsport in a Chiropractor's office might be the type of cleaning and disinfecting they may be required to do. 75% of my business is made up of Medical and Dental office upholstering, and the Chiropractor's offices I have done work for use some fairly harsh disinfectants such as PDI Sani-Cloth Plus. Commercial vinyls such as Spirit Millennium, Color Guard, Olympus etc. have vinyl coatings such as Prefixx , Color Gard and PermaBlok3 as a protective coating. If you look at the back of many of these commercial vinyls they say for use in Healthcare among others. The Allsport may not hold up well long term, especially if anything alcohol based is used. You might want to contact Morbern who manufactures Allsport and get their opinion on it's use in a medical setting.
http://www.morbern.com/index.php
The doc asked me about cleaning. I told him the same thing, becareful not to use an alcohol or bleach base on any of his vinyls that he wants to last. So if he isn't blasting it with bleach or alcohol I would think being marine grade vinyl that it would hold up. Especially for the price..haha
I think if he gets five years out of any vinyl he's doing good. And really, for $350 a table just have them done again...
Hi I have done several chiropractic tables and hospital tables over the years. The trick is to get the customer to take them apart, the older ones have numerous screws and bolts, some headrests take up to an hour to get off. I'd say your quote of 200. is low, however I do agree, do the first one, then up your quote as per your time. Thanks Pat. Also make sure you use the appropriate vinyl, or else you will be doing job again in a couple of years.
Pat,
I know there is some concern about the life of the vinyl "Allsport". However, one can only hope that marine designated vinyl that costs $25 a yard will hold up in climate controlled environment with no harsh chemicals applied and no direct sunlight.
Also, if you are getting your customer who is a doctor to take apart his own tables, you are a magician. The doctor I am dealing with thinks of a screwdriver as a drink...
Ed
The doctors around here don't give a rat's behind about how the vinyl will stand up to cleaning and disinfecting.
I present them with the option of the higher priced vinyl that is rated for hospitals and nursing homes, or the plain ordinary cheap vinyl. It's very rare that they choose the good stuff. They just want the cracks and tears to disappear for the least amount of money. By the time the cracks have re-emerged, odds are they've moved on anyway.
And about half of them take the tables/exam chairs apart and bring me the pieces. Especially Chiropractors and Dentists.
Sofa,
The tables I took apart had 7 pieces, they used square bit #2 and mostly #3 heads. I looked before the job and picked up the #3 bit at Depot. And the screws by the head piece and rear sections were a pain in the arse to get to...so hey, that's awesome if they want to deal with those. I think this guy did one and knew what a pain it was, so he was happy to pass the buck to me...haha. You know, some guys will say, "Oh, I'll just take that apart real quick", then they're like hmmm this was a dumb move once they get into it. I know, cause I've been that guy...haha
Ed
What's really aggravating, is that many of the #2,#3 square head screws look like Phillips screws at first glance. So the average knucklehead grabs up a cordless screwdriver with a Phillips bit, and proceeds to strip them out.
I had one guy bring in several pieces that he had removed himself. He said "Here .......you'll need this", and handed me a Phillips bit that he had filed into a square one. He didn't know that they sold those new fangled square bits at the hardware store.
There is also an annoying new screw being used on some off shore furniture that is meant to accept Phillips or Robertson (square head) screwdrivers.
You guessed it--- they're useless with either tool.
QuoteHe didn't know that they sold those new fangled square bits at the hardware store.
Up here Robertson heads have been the norm since their invention shortly before Mr. Phillips found he could make his heads cheaper. What I have found over the last number of years is that the quality of the fit to the driver bit/screwdriver has gone down the tubes,especially in deck screws. Anybody else finding this?
I don't even give my customers the option of the commercial vinyl as opposed to the cheap vinyl anymore. When we were first getting our feet wet in the medical/dental upholstering field, we had done some jobs using the same automotive and marine grade vinyl we were used to using and we were back on the same equipment within 5 to 6 years. I was lucky enough to talk to someone with Midmark (a major manufacturer of medical tables and dental chairs) and he clued me in to the problems to be had using the incorrect vinyls.
Off the top of my head a Adec 1040 dental chair might use 3 yards of material. The difference between the commercial vinyl ($40 retail / yard) vs the cheap vinyl ($20 retail/yard) is $60. I get $650 to do the chair. When I tell the Dentist he will probably get 12 to 15 years with the commercial vinyl as opposed to maybe 5 years with the cheap vinyl under normal disinfecting protocol they would never pick the cheap vinyl. Been doing medical/dental for about 25 years and am on the vendor's list for all 3 major hospital systems in the area. Because of this I have had the ability to see many of the jobs we have done over the years and how they have held up to the wear and tear and the cleaning. There is a noticeable difference between the appropriate commercial vinyl and the so called cheap vinyl.
If one plans on doing a lot of this type of work over the long term as opposed to just getting it done it i worth using the proper vinyl.
Quote from: Upholstery Clinic on January 28, 2013, 05:04:27 pm
If one plans on doing a lot of this type of work over the long term as opposed to just getting it done it i worth using the proper vinyl.
I've been doing medical equipment for local hospitals and doctor's offices for over 30 years.
I've used commercial (hospitality grade) vinyl. And I've used regular cheap vinyl.
Frankly, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason which lasts longer. I've had commercial vinyl that didn't last 5 years, and I've had regular vinyl that lasted 7 or more years.
I currently have an optometrist that runs to JoAnn's every few months, and buys a couple yards of vinyl for me to put on his exam chairs.
Like most areas, we have a lot of Asian doctors around here. If I told them that they could have hospital grade vinyl for only $1 more, they would still opt for the cheaper vinyl.
With so many Doctors operating under managed health care companies now, even the cheap vinyl often outlasts the Doctor's tenure.
It's nothing for me to recover medical seating that I last recovered 10 years and 3 Doctors ago.
Hi thought my last little note had gotten through, oh wrong. I have done numerous chiro, hospital, table in my 26 yrs. The real trick is to get your client too take them apart, and then you can pick them up. Most head-rests on chiro tables take a long time to take apart 30 to 45 minutes. As far a upholstery, its very easy. Your main time is in taking the bloody tables apart and puttin them back together, my suggestion take pictures of every piece, definitely helps, and I am sorry your price is defiantly low, 20 years ago i was charging 350. with vinly PAT
Pat,
You are a little behind on this thread. I already posted that I went up to $300 plus material on my final quote and thanked everyone on this thread. This has turned out to be a long thread so you kinda have to read through it all to get up to speed...no worries.
Thanks,
Ed
Quote from: Highvelocity on January 29, 2013, 06:11:46 am
Pat,
You are a little behind on this thread. I already posted that I went up to $300 plus material on my final quote and thanked everyone on this thread.
I think what Pat is saying, is that $350 is what he charged 20 years ago. So he saying that it's way too low for today.
Really and truly though, it's tough for upholsterers from all different regions of the country (and world) to come on here and talk price. If my house were in a similar neighborhood on the east or west coast, it might be valued at more than 3 times what it is here in Texas. I know some people that moved here from California. They sold their house there, bought a bigger one here, and pocketed the difference of 600K.
20 years ago, if I had tried to charge a Chiropractor $350, he probably would've filed a complaint with the BBB.
Heck, he might have even tried to have me arrested ;D.
Sofa,
You are so right, I have a friend who paid $450 for his table to be done in Princeton NJ which is very a richie rich area. And of course everything in the area is pricey, but he also charges higher fees for his chiro services. Were I live it's more median priced homes etc.
In general though, it seems that in most trades the price of work goes up slower than the cost of living dictates...haha
Ed
Quote from: sofadoc on January 29, 2013, 06:47:10 am
If my house were in a similar neighborhood on the east or west coast, it might be valued at more than 3 times what it is here in Texas. I know some people that moved here from California. They sold their house there, bought a bigger one here, and pocketed the difference of 600K.
sofa that's just what I did when I got on the net and saw prices I had a lake house in new Hampshire I sold and got a better place here for 1/3 the cost. but also latly on some jobs I find it hard to get the same prices I did in NH 10 year ago