Close to the epicenter

[sofadoc]

In the 30's and 40's, cotton was one of the most profitable cash crops in the world. And Greenville, Tx. was one of the world's largest cotton producers. This was Greenville's heyday.

That means that a LOT of black people picked cotton for a LOT of white people.

Then Egypt mastered irrigation, and took over world domination of the cotton market, and mankind invented polyester. These 2 factors led to the end of that heyday.

Much of Greenville's black population today is comprised of descendants of those people that picked the cotton. They still live in the same rundown shacks that their ancestors lived in. They haven't been able to climb out of the hole of poverty they inherited.

Then add the large Hispanic population living here illegally. They take jobs away from legal citizens because they work cheaper (since they pay no taxes or insurance).

I would agree, that America has come a LONG, LONG way from the race riots of the 60's. I wish we would take the focus off of race, and start focusing on the disparity between the "Haves" and the "Have nots". 

[Rich]

I highly recommend this book to anyone who wonders why, after 50 years of social programs, the conditions Kody mentioned still exist. It's a real eye opener as he puts his finger on just why we are feeling things aren't right in America today.
Rich
http://www.amazon.com/Push-Reclaiming-American-Judeo-Christian-Spirit/dp/1581694555

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Then add the large Hispanic population living here illegally. They take jobs away from legal citizens because they work cheaper (since they pay no taxes or insurance).

I would agree, that America has come a LONG, LONG way from the race riots of the 60's. I wish we would take the focus off of race, and start focusing on the disparity between the "Haves" and the "Have nots". 

Most Hispanics I know (a HUGE amount in Grand Island because of feedlots and meat packing plant) are paying taxes.  Even if here illegally, you are paying taxes as you are using a stolen SSAN.  When I worked at the rendering plant, on more than one occasion, we had a Hispanic fellow apply for a job.  We always got drivers licenses and SS cards.  One occasion they guy was 5'4 and the height on the DL was 6'1.  Another time, the license showed a very full-faced and dark complected gentleman and our applicant was gaunt faced, light complexion with severe acne.  Plant manager and I both laughed until we almost wet ourselves. ; )

The biggest issue absolutely is the disparity between the haves and the have nots.  It's like 7% controls 81% of the wealth and the remaining 93% have 19% of the wealth in the country.  That is why people cannot get out of the rat hole tenaments, frustration, apathy, drug addiction and what ever else.

I've no problem with a former addict running a program as their degree comes from the School of Hard Knocks and that knowledge is worth way more than any piece of paper I ever got for going to school.  I am very anti having Church's in charge of those programs, especially the Catholic Church.  Of subject but Catholic Health Initiatives has taken the reigns of our local Hospital, the Heart Institute, Imaging Clinic and things I don't even know about.  Their prices are substantially higher than those same services that are not run by CHI (or any other Church for that matter).  We pay for BCBS each month and starting Monday, if we need to be hospitalized we will have to drive 60 miles to a facility not affiliated with CHI as the contract between all CHI facilities in Nebraska and BCBS has been severed.  They are still negotiating but neither seems to want to blink and we who are paying premiums are the ones affected because CHI has gotten greedy.  So please, keep Churches out of running programs to help addicts, the sick and the needy.

Virginia

[Rich]

So please, keep Churches out of running programs to help addicts, the sick and the needy.

Virginia

The Catholic church isn't the only church in America, many others have programs run by individual churches (non=denominational) and they help those in need as a response to Jesus' command to do that.
In place of churches, who would do a better job? Please don't say the government because ever since the government took over what used to be the domain of churches and private individuals, it has become something done for political leverage and has a poor track record of getting anything meaningful accomplished. Just look at all the social programs that have mainly kept politicians in office in return for an endless promise of enabling to many who should be using it as a leg up to independence but unfortunately have little incentive to get off of them.
Any other ideas?
Rich

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

So please, keep Churches out of running programs to help addicts, the sick and the needy.

Virginia

The Catholic church isn't the only church in America, many others have programs run by individual churches (non=denominational) and they help those in need as a response to Jesus' command to do that.
In place of churches, who would do a better job? Please don't say the government because ever since the government took over what used to be the domain of churches and private individuals, it has become something done for political leverage and has a poor track record of getting anything meaningful accomplished. Just look at all the social programs that have mainly kept politicians in office in return for an endless promise of enabling to many who should be using it as a leg up to independence but unfortunately have little incentive to get off of them.
Any other ideas?
Rich

IF the church's were doing what Jesus wanted and kept greed out if it, I'd have no problems.  Greed has entered the equation.  That's what is going on with CHI and BCBS right now.  You see it in many Church's with their opulent buildings, jinormous salaries, etc.  I don't pretend to know all the answers, I just know that the churches that I see are all about money, money, money and NOT about following Jesus' teachings.

Virginia

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Rich, I need to comment further on the government and social programs.

40+ years ago, through no fault of my own, I wound up as a ward of the State of Nebraska and eventually was placed in foster care.  I ultimately wound up in a fabulous foster home where, I'm told, I flourished and graduated from high school and have become a respected member of society.  Our wonderful Governor decided that this same foster care system was "in need of serious reform".  He restructured the system, privatized it and almost ran it into the ground.  Foster parents were not being paid, children in some cases had little more than the clothing on their backs.  Basically, the entire State revolted against this fabulous new system and the foster care system is now under the State's control again.  Kids once again are getting the necessary clothing allowances they need, foster parents are being paid (though not nearly enough in my humble opinion) and the State's foster care system is rebounding again.

So, yes I believe that the Government can run social programs successfully.  Social Security flourished until its funds were transferred to the general budget by a former republican president as it gave him more money to spend on a war.  SS would not be in danger of running dry if all workers paid the same rate but that's another subject for discussion.

Perhaps the reason that I have faith in the Government running programs successfully is that I worked for 20 years for the Government and I've seen how much Government workers can accomplish.

Virginia

[Rich]

IF the church's were doing what Jesus wanted and kept greed out if it, I'd have no problems.  Greed has entered the equation.  That's what is going on with CHI and BCBS right now.  You see it in many Church's with their opulent buildings, jinormous salaries, etc.  I don't pretend to know all the answers, I just know that the churches that I see are all about money, money, money and NOT about following Jesus' teachings.

Virginia, you'll get no argument from me concerning rampant greed in our society today and yes, many churches have adopted the ways of the culture. My wife and just recently left a church after many years for reasons related to that very thing, but there are churches, as we are finding, that have stayed true to the Biblical message.

I am glad you had that good experience in the foster care system, lives are changed for the better when people do the right things. My main beef s with the Federal government's handling of social issues. They should be protecting us and removing obstacles to make it easier for entrepreneurs to succeed, not enabling people who won't take personal responsibility like you did.

On social security, I found this:http://www.snopes.com/politics/socialsecurity/changes.asp
Here's a portion of it:
Prior to 1984, income derived from Social Security benefits was exempt from taxation. Amendments to the Social Security Act passed by Congress in 1983 allowed for 50% of Social Security benefits to be considered taxable income for taxpayers whose total income exceeded specified thresholds.

Responsibility for this change cannot fairly be assigned to either political party. The idea originated with a proposal issued by the bipartisan Greenspan Commission, which had been created by President Ronald Reagan, a Republican. The amendments were passed by a House of Representatives in which the Democrats held a clear majority of the seats (296-166), but the proposed amendments received "Yea" votes from members of both parties, and they were signed into law by President Reagan.
snopes.com

Of course, as we all know, what one hears about any of these issues largely depends on where the information is coming from. I try to always consider the sources, but it is hard to always know how much truth is mixed in with the blather.
I just don't think the U.S, government has a good track record for fixing social problems.
Rich

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

Nor do all churches have good track records for fixing social issues.  There are churches who will deny services if they do not agree with the person's life style, ie a homosexual who needs drug rehab just for starters.  You will never be able to get a church's philosophical views out of their social programs (some yes, some partially and some not at all).  I don't want people falling through the cracks because the only help they can get is contingent with a church's "moral compass".  My mother had an old saying:  Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" -- it is our Government and we the People need to step up to the plate and get the programs that need changes fixed. 

Re Social Security.  I'm familiar with the taxation of SS bene's as I do my MIL's taxes and their formula for determining taxable level caused lots of my hair to turn gray the first year I did her taxes.  Ugh.  I'm was referring to taking the SS funds out of their "lockbox" and adding them into the mix which kept the deficit down.  That was done under a Republican administration.  Also as I stated previously, not all wage earners pay the same % into SS.  Only the first $110,000 has ss taxes paid on it.  I guess I'll never understand why top earners stop paying ss after $110,000.

At any rate, I'm sure that we're never going to agree under whose purvue social programs should be.  We just need to make sure that all people who need help get it.  That's all.  Also, we need to make sure that those who don't are not sucking the system dry such as the Lottery winner (Ohio?) who was arrested for food stamp fraud -- she claimed she still needed food stamps because she was now making two house payments.  :slaps hand against forehead in total disbelief:

Virginia

[Rich]

I can see we're both firmly entrenched in our positions on this subject.
Basically, mine is that I don't like the Government deciding for me who should be the recipient of my hard earned money. I think the gov't. should provide the means for it's citizens to succeed or fail on it's their own merits while providing help for those who, through no fault of their own, have fallen on hard times. This, with the understanding that in a reasonable amount of time, that help will no longer be provided if and when the person becomes able to make it on their own.

I see this country more and more, following the lead of Europe, requiring more working people to support more non-working people. At some point, it no longer works.

America's a great country because of the liberty it provides for one to succeed (and to provide employment for others in the process). It's never been done like this before, it has worked and I hope it doesn't fade into the history books forever.
So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree,
Rich

[Mike]

I see this country more and more, following the lead of Europe, requiring more working people to support more non-working people. At some point, it no longer works.

ive always wonder kinda the same I have seen so many people who don't produce anything at there job. my dad called some of them" paper pushers" somebody has to make something to be sold to support the rest of the non producers .  like a bug one insurance lol there's a big nothing you cant touch. like a friend of mine a truck driver for a union lumber yard. he will retire soon and get a really nice check each month somebody making all that money going to all the retired teamsters . my ups driver is retiring this month also .

there another subject the social security system they say it will run dry. I know theres a dollar amount that one can make each month ant still collect but I don't think its $3500 a month pension and his monthly SS check 

[Virgs Sew n Sew]

We definitely are not going to agree.

Myself, I would like to see us a little more like Europe.  I know they pay more in taxes but their medical is included so they don't have stupid fights with insurance companies, get set amounts of time for both fathers and mothers when new babies arrive, retirement that is hands above our social security, etc.  Bob & I agree that if we knew what we know now when we retired, we would have gone across the Big Pond.

As far as Government deciding how to spend our $$$'s, that is part of living in a "civilized society".  I have a severe dislike, more like disdain, for war (even though I'm a veteran and worked for the Defense Department for many years) but I understand that it is the Government's responsibility to decide when we go to war.  Part of the overall process.  Going to the State/Local level, I want children in need to have a stable foster care system so they don't fall through the cracks -- I ever so grateful that such a system was in place when I needed it.  I want to drive on good roads and part of gas tax goes to refurbish our highways.  I want firemen to respond should my house or garage catch on fire and I absolutely want the police to respond when the drunks across the street get out of control yet again. 

So, I look at all the pluses that I get from my tax dollars and I'm overall happy.  Yes, I would like some of the systems improved but that will only happen when we the taxpayers flex our collective muscles and make our voices heard.

Virginia

[Rich]

"I want to drive on good roads and part of gas tax goes to refurbish our highways.  I want firemen to respond should my house or garage catch on fire and I absolutely want the police to respond when the drunks across the street get out of control yet again."

Just one point for clarity, Those are services that gov't should provide so that people can be fee to live successful lives. We can't build our own roads, put out our fires etc, but expecting the gov't to provide a nice retirement or pay people not to work is not.
That's my understanding of what was intended back when this country was formed.
Rich

[Darren Henry]

Yes, I would like some of the systems improved but that will only happen when we the taxpayers flex our collective muscles and make our voices heard.

Dang straight!!! But how do we end the apathy of the electorate? And how do you force an individual who will retire at huge $$$ at the end of his/her term (s) to P/O the puppet masters that got him his job when only 4? % (Cdn stats) turn out to vote let alone actually hold their MP/MLA to task as a collective group with a workable proposal?

I would like to see us a little more like Europe.

I have never had the opportunity to go to Europe. Many of my friends back in Kenora are German immigrants though, and as proud as I am to be Canadian I think we could save the Canadian tax payer some serious cash ( or actually have some old age pension in the bank when I get there, etc...) if we took some notes from them. One short example: Canada--- right shade of skin/ know right answers---set for life; Berlin---no doctor's note---here's a pair of labelled coveralls and a shovel. We'll buy you lunch, but you don't get your welfare check until this snow is removed.

Just sayin'

[kodydog]

America was founded on a principal of capitalism. This is what made our country unique. This is what made our country powerful.

Today capitalism is considered a bad word but most people on this forum, weather they like it or not are capitalists. Capitalism is an economic system where the means of production are owned by private individuals. Under a capitalist economy, the economy runs through individuals who own and operate private companies.

Social-ism is an economic system where the means of production, such as money and other forms of capital, are owned by the state or public. Under a social-ist system, everyone works for wealth that is, in turn, distributed to everyone. Under capitalism, you work for your own wealth. A social-ist economic system operates on the premise that what is good for one is good for all. Everyone works for their own good and the good of everyone else. The government decides how wealth is distributed among the people.

By definition Social-ism and capitalism cannot work together.

Some people believe the Constitution is a living, breathing document. One that is always changing through the ages. But the framers wrote the law of the land in such a way that it could withstand the test of time. It is a pretty incredible piece of paper written by some incredible people.

So what is the constitutional role of the federal government.  The preamble says, "form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for common defense. Quite simply;
1   Defense, war prosecution, peace, foreign relations, foreign commerce, and interstate commerce.
2   The protection of citizens' constitutional rights (e.g the right to vote) and ensuring that slavery remains illegal.
3   Establishing federal courts inferior to the SCOTUS;
4   Copyright protection.
5   Coining money.
6   Establishing post offices and post roads.
7   Establishing a national set of universal weights and measures.
8   Taxation needed to raise revenue to perform these essential functions.

As we can see the founding fathers wanted a very limited federal government. And if one were to read further, states rights are most important. The growth of the federal government is completely out of control.

I could never understand why if a person has $1mil or even $1bil this means other people must stay in poverty. There really is no correlation between the two. The ability to succeed is available to everyone, in every country under every form of government, especially in America. No man is poor because opportunity has been taken away from him; because other people have monopolized the wealth and have put a fence around it.  Anyone can follow the tide of opportunity to riches. No one is kept in poverty by a shortness in the supply of riches; there is more than enough for everyone. If an individual is poor it is because they do not follow the certain way of doing things which makes the individual man rich. You are not kept poor by the lack in the supply of riches. This is a fact. Any man or women can become rich if they will act in a certain way. You don't have to be greedy, you don't have to cheat, you don't have to take advantage of other people, You don't even have to be thrifty. In fact you can become rich by giving more than you receive. You can become rich in any business, in any environment. Including re-upholstering furniture. How do I know? I've seen people do it.

My point is people stay in poverty by their own beliefs. By thinking because one man is rich another must remain poor. By thinking their environment is keeping them down, your environment can only keep you down as long as you stay in it. By thinking they're not good enough or smart enough. I've seen plenty of uneducated and untalented individuals become wealthy. Madonna comes to mind.

[SteveA]

KD - seems accurate up until the last sentence. Uneducated + untalented ?  I sort of like some of her songs not a big fan but she is amazing in what she accomplished and I would not call her untalented.  Education isn't always academics - it can be the need to survive and use your inherent skills to prosper -
SA