I currently use a "standard" 1" binding attachment and it causes more frustration than anything else. I need a right angle binder to deal with curves. The way I see it, I have three options.
1) get a cheap ebay one for $40 (http://cgi.ebay.com/CONSEW-206-206RB-TAPE-BINDER-1-1-2-AT4-/290432716803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f239003)
2) get a "nice" 5-piece set on ebay for $120 (http://cgi.ebay.com/CONSEW-206RB-JUKI-BINDER-SET-SINGLE-FOLD-RIGHT-ANGLE-/290477276700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item895f106681)
3) get a custom made one for $280
I know I need a binder foot set but do I need a new needle plate and feed dog?
I can't really justify option three at this point in time, but I could go for the 5-piece set if it'll make a difference. What do you think? Have any of you used one of these generic, non-custom right angle binders?
What are you binding? I'm assuming you're using something like Sunbrella binding, where both edges are already turned under for you. Some folders will take a flat bias piece and turn under both raw edges as the fabric feeds through the folder. I have one of those for my drop feed single needle. It was a very expensive attachment and came from the liquidation sale where I bought my overlock machine many years ago.
Whether or not you need a new feed, plate, and binder feet depends on how and where you mount the folder on your machine. Some are set into the existing throat plate area and require a different feed and foot, others simply screw on to the machine head and can be conveniently moved out of the way when not in use. Usually, they don't require a binder foot, but if you want to be able to get in close the proper foot is a big help.
Binding and folding operations are a huge source of frustration for me at my job. We don't have a right angle set up and generally rely on duct tape and some luck to keep the cheapie folder in place; binding curves and cut outs is a horror. (Boss still thinks the elderly binding foot that came with an old machine no longer in the shop is a zipper foot).
I am not sure what type of material you are binding.
I use my binder a great deal, so much so that I leave the bracket attached to the machine and just remove binder. I typically am binding 1 " double edge turned up acrylic binding to Textilene.
I didn't want to skimp on the binder so I bought a high end fold away binder from Sail Rite. It is very high quality, made extremely well and is manufactured in Japan. You can find binders cheaper but I would caution you against some of the other binders that others sell as they are not made as well as this Japanese brand ( Suesie ).
Here is a link to the binder I use:
http://www.sailrite.com/Binder-1-Swing-Bracket (http://www.sailrite.com/Binder-1-Swing-Bracket)
If you have any questions, let me know.
Chris
hiya
for 40 bucks wouldn't it be worth buying a cheap one
and if you don't like it go buy the $280 one ?
Rich
I have a couple . The best is the custom one I bought from Greg here last year. Yes was expensive but I rarely have to remove it , it works awesome. I used this at marine canvas training workshop and found it is the shizzy for sure.
Sorry, I make bags and other nylon (Cordura) gear, I don't do upholstery. I mainly use 1" 5038 webbing for binding (it's similar to grossgrain ribbon) so I only need a single turn, raw edge binder. I've heard good things about the Sailrite binders but they don't have the right angle kind
I have three binder setup I commonly sell for Sunbrella double fold, 3/4", 1", and now seemingly becoming more popular, 7/8".
Least expensive is the straight folder, (again, for Sunbrealla ONLY, that $120 jober linked on this thread is a BRAID binder, not Sunbrealla) for $32.50~$35 depending on size. I sell this with slide plate for most common top loaders, and with attaching thumb screws for top loader machines. Not at all bad for most jobs.
Now, for the high end attachments I sell for $280.
These are CUSTOM made, specific for the materials YOU send to have it setup with, guaranteed to work, period. If not, the go back for readjustment at no cost. These are best for doing turns and curves. I have these on a swing, a real swing arm that spans the arm of the machine, not just a few inches out of the way. And, the single screw attaching to the front edge of of the bed makes it easy to come straight down unimpeded with a screw driver for easy install and removal.
Now, for the tricky part; Do you go with parts (foot feed and plate) or with a setup for standard presser foot setup, and WHY.
If you only have one machine for all, most often I would recommend to go with a setup that can be used well with standard needle plate, feed dog, and presser feet. This is the most versatile setup, and works well for most say boat canvas applications.
BUT, if you have a machine that you can dedicate, almost becoming a work station, you can install the swing arm with custom presser feet, needle plate, and feed dog. These items when setup properly may need some adjusting away from the standard parts settings, and will not be easy to switch back and forth easily. Also, custom feet, needle plate, and feed dog are additional cost.
So why use custom parts?
Because with a custom binder setup with presser feet, feed a plate, you can get as close as possible to the needle, allowing for the most flexibility for doing turns and curves. In fact, for some jobs, this is a necessity. Some jobs that may come up are tactical gear, holsters, bags, visors, and such. Not all boat canvas jobs will benefit from this, and may be unnecessary.
So, as you can see, the bigger price does not always mean the best setup for you, and may not work to your advantage.
Quote from: Gregg @ Keystone Sewing on January 23, 2011, 11:45:57 am
that $120 jober linked on this thread is a BRAID binder, not Sunbrealla) for $32.50~$35 depending on size. I sell this with slide plate for most common top loaders, and with attaching thumb screws for top loader machines. Not at all bad for most jobs.
ive got what sounds likew trhis set up the folder it looks much like chris's link but its mounted on a top plate removed when not needed. ive got a fancy 90ยบ binder on a swing away arm though its still in the way. i ust dont like it maybe i need to pratice more with it but i dont have the time to.
Jan, I bought one of those right-angle binders off some eBay store a few years ago, but it wouldn't work for Sunbrella binding. It might work for what you use. The binding was too thick/stiff and dragged through the binder, causing the fabric to gather up inside the binding because the fabric fed faster than the binding did. I got frustrated and put it aside. I may have another go at it sometime by opening up the channel with a heavy screwdriver so it feeds the binding easier.
June
Gregg,
I have the same binder that Chris has, a swing-away from Sailrite. It works pretty good, but I'd like to try a 90* binder for going around tight turns. How much is the 90* binder? I'm using acrylic double fold 1" binding around 2 layers of 1000 denier Cordura right now.
I didn't see a price for the 90* swing away that does acrylic binding...maybe I missed it? Is that the one for $280 or do you have one cheaper?
BTW, looking forward to getting the roller guide!
hiya
I have both straight and 90deg 7/8 binders for sunbrella binding
i find the 90 deg one easier but it's still not that great at going around
bends. Maybe i'm doing something wrong but if i curve around a radius
using the binder the edge of the fabric curls up because its too tight.
Quote from: hdflame on January 25, 2011, 10:16:34 am
BTW, looking forward to getting the roller guide!
Yeah, you better be, that price match was a friggin' killer. Genuine Suisei for that price? My supplier had to give it to me at cost to hold me off! ;D
Any hoot, yes, the 90 degree angle binder is the one for $280. I think you would have to tap a screw into the bed for this unit to work; for some reason Highlead does not put an attachment screw on the front edge of the bed on your model. You of course have the shiny silver disk an inch or so from the right of the needle, but this is not how the swing arm on the high end attachment is setup.
I don't really "get" how the binder is afixed to the machine bed. Is it possible to afix the set up to two different machines using a couple of different set screws and tweaking the alignment of the folder relative to the needle?
I have a Juki 1541 and a Juki 9010 and if possible I'd like to be able to use this attachment with both of those machines, but am unclear about the viability of it.
Also, I'd like to know if purchasing a binding foot would allow me to adjust the mouth of the folder closer to the needle. I'd prefer to not get involved with changing out feeds if possible, but do know from experience that the closer the folder is to the needle the easier it is to negotiate a tighter radius.
Thoughts on this, Gregg?
theres a few different ways to fit them to the machine Bobbin.
some binders come with different fixing options too, some are
just a plate permanently fixed to the binder with either holes
or a slot, you screw the binder directly to the machine and obviously
the slotted ones give you more adjustment.
the swing away ones still screw to the machine but are hinged
on the fixing plate so you can swing the binder to the side when not using it.
a second type of swing away has a single post you screw into the machine bed
and the binder swings around that, the Florida school sells that type i think.
I bet Greg has them too.
if you want to fix to 2 different machi8nes and the holes on the bed are in different places
you can mount the binder on a metal plate that has enough holes for both machines
or have 2 different plates, 1 for each machines hole pattern.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2181.jpg&hash=23bbda03c82342dbe03a3d445b5ffa70) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/100_2181.jpg)
I'm guessing if they are both Juki then the hole pattern in the bed will be the same ?
Gregg ?
bobbin,
Thanks for asking. Some machines can be different than others, but in your case, both mount onto the bed of your Juki machines the same way. We use two attaching screws provided with attachment to screw down to the bed of the machine. In your case, the shinny silver round disk in the bed, about two inches from the needle to the right. And yes you can adjust front to back, left to right. And, ask you were asking, you do not have to change out the feed dog, needle plate or presser feet. Most do not with this setup on the inexpensive straight folders.
Hope this helps, let me know if I can elaborate.
One thing I think from reading this post is that I really need to do a better job SHOWING people what I am talking about. A few pics on my website would go a long way.
Quote from: fragged8 on February 13, 2011, 03:38:27 pm
a second type of swing away has a single post you screw into the machine bed
and the binder swings around that, the Florida school sells that type i think.
I bet Greg has them too.
I'm guessing if they are both Juki then the hole pattern in the bed will be the same ?
Gregg ?
I sell the same binder as the guy in FL, but he mounts the binder head a a few inches back toward the operator. I custom mount mine on a machine by machine basis, knowing what model machine customer will install onto. This ensures the binder is al close as possible to the needle and feeder.
Yeah, Gregg, there's nothing like a "visual aid", is there? it's funny how sometimes you can't quite "wrap your brain" around something until you've seen it.
My experience with binders has been the sort mounted on the slide plate that slides in over the bobbin case on vertical axis machines and then the "full ride" set up (replace feed, presser foot and flush mount the folder into the throat plate area of the machine) for horizontal axis bobbin machines. I'm not sure that would work with either of my machines as they both have trimmers.
You've been so patient about explaining all this stuff. Thanks and I'll be in touch.
same here Gregg, i often skip sites that don't have the pictures ..
that post binder ? what sort of money are we talking coz the guy in FL
wants a fortune. from memory i think it was about $250.
mind you i paid $400 for the 4 1/4 one in the picture
BTW I have found mounting the binder a little back from the needle helps
when going around a radius so you can get a little pull on the outside edge
of the binding,
Quote from: fragged8 on February 13, 2011, 03:38:27 pm
theres a few different ways to fit them to the machine Bobbin.
some binders come with different fixing options too, some are
just a plate permanently fixed to the binder with either holes
or a slot, you screw the binder directly to the machine and obviously
the slotted ones give you more adjustment.
the swing away ones still screw to the machine but are hinged
on the fixing plate so you can swing the binder to the side when not using it.
a second type of swing away has a single post you screw into the machine bed
and the binder swings around that, the Florida school sells that type i think.
I bet Greg has them too.
if you want to fix to 2 different machi8nes and the holes on the bed are in different places
you can mount the binder on a metal plate that has enough holes for both machines
or have 2 different plates, 1 for each machines hole pattern.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2181.jpg&hash=23bbda03c82342dbe03a3d445b5ffa70) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/100_2181.jpg)
I'm guessing if they are both Juki then the hole pattern in the bed will be the same ?
Gregg ?
That one looks like it's for thick material...like indoor/outdoor carpeting?? Hard to believe it cost so much!
When it comes to quality custom attachments, it's like quality custom anything else; it's going to work with your specific equipment, do what you want, and it's going to last. Normally it's also going to be USA made, in most cases here. All this comes; you guessed it, at a price. It all depends on what you are looking for, and in some cases how you want to go about doing it. That's what makes it custom, and in some cases, a one of a kind item. A custom attachment that could costs one person $800 and be worth every penny of it and them some, maybe absolutely worthless to someone who is never going to use it. Another thing is that the possibilities are endless when it comes to custom attachments. I have a few books, each the size of a normal telephone book, with endless standard or common attachments previously made up that can be modified or resized, and mounted on various machines. This is why, in many cases, we need sample materials and also test material for specific jobs. Not all work out from the beginning, but in the end, we make sure the customer has what they had hoped for. That's, again, where the custom part fits in with a dash of service for good measure.
Rich, while both my primary machines are Jukis and have the same stainless "plug" for attachments to the right of the needle there are other holes that serve as anchor points, as well. And those holes are not the same from the 9010 to the 1541. (I suspect the 1541 and your 1508/10 would have the same configuration as they're related machines).
I don't think the right angle binder I just ordered from Gregg will work with the 9010 without considerable retrofitting. But I'm good with that since it's most likely the 1541 will be the "go do" machine for that operation.
I'm excited about this and I'll let you know how it works out. :)
Gregg,
I think that's the case with anything "Custom". When I make custom items for people, I think I tend to undercharge. I need to up my prices on a lot of what I do.
Bobbin,
Be sure to give us an update on that 90* binder. I bought a swing-away 1" binder from Sailrite. Gregg didn't have the swing-away model except for the custom model. I just couldn't afford that much right now. Trying to buy everything I need to get started up is a big investment. Now that I've started doing custom leather work, I've had to start buying specialized equipment all over again!
hiya
If you want bobbin you can always drill new holes in your machine bed,
factories sometimes have to do it to get the right mounting positions.
just be sure you're not drilling into an oil reservoir or dropping swarf into
bearings etc.
( not a job to be done by you if you are unsure )
My machine is a 2210-7 Juki and came from a factory, they have even put a
couple of mounting holes in the bobbin cover plate, i'm guessing for a fixed guide .
Rich
FYI- Purchased both of mine from Marine Canvas Training in Florida. WOW!!!!! These things are awesome! You can certainly bet they'll last a lifetime. They weren't cheap, (I believe $250.00 per each), but, after buying three seperate ones from my vendor(s), I would have been much better off just biting the bullet, and spending the $ the first time.
Chris
Greg has the same swing away as Dawn at mcti. Like I said above it's the shizzy , right?
that big binder Bobby is for sunbrella , it takes 4 1/4 " strips and double
folds them down to 1 1/2" for boat top curtains edging around the glass.
Dragged,
Do you possibly have a video clip of that facing binder? Sounds like it would be quite helpful
Thank you,
Chris
i have a vid but cant find it, but it does exactly what any other double
fold binder does just bigger.
the binder is commonly used to put the waistbands on Jeans
and pants.
like this
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2182.jpg&hash=c8ce3e24901ff374ba7ecb3a89f93eb3) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/100_2182.jpg)
the size of the edging means you can hide a zipper between
two window panels. this one just shows as it a metric zipper
and ever so slightly wider than American zippers
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2183.jpg&hash=fd11af64d5487e3635d1da0c6c50f704) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/?action=view¤t=100_2183.jpg)
Rich
Quote from: fragged8 on February 17, 2011, 11:25:28 am
i have a vid but cant find it, but it does exactly what any other double
fold binder does just bigger.
the binder is commonly used to put the waistbands on Jeans
and pants.
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2182.jpg&hash=c8ce3e24901ff374ba7ecb3a89f93eb3) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/100_2182.jpg)
the size of the edging means you can hide a zipper between
two window panels. this one just shows as it a metric zipper
and ever so slightly wider than American zippers
(https://forum.upholster.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi120.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo194%2Ffragged8%2Fth_100_2183.jpg&hash=fd11af64d5487e3635d1da0c6c50f704) (http://s120.photobucket.com/albums/o194/fragged8/?action=view¤t=100_2183.jpg)
Rich