Hi again-
I'm still looking for that elusive used walking foot machine :-\
I found a Juki LU-563 at a dealer and a Juki DNU-1541S from a private party. They both come with motor, table and head in good working order. Each are $1200.
Anybody familiar with either model? I would rather ask first than make a $1200. mistake.
Thanks again,
Teresa
The 563 is about $300 too high IMO. The 563 was replaced by the 1508 at least 10 years ago (maybe more).
The 1541......depends on how old it is. Might be a good deal if it's fairly new.
Both are great machines.
Mojo has been very happy with his Chandler. You can get a brand new Chandler cheaper than that used 563.
Sofadoc-
I took your suggestion and canned the 563. The 1541 was bought a year and a half ago by the seller, who has a cottage business making one-of -kind backpacks. Says he has used it primarily for sewing cordura and leather and has to sell it because he's moving back to Colorado from Boston.
I'll test drive it tomorrow. I would typically opt to buy from a dealer but this may just work out.
I appreciate your input:)
Teresa
I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a Juki 563. Even in pristine conditon. Times change and so do machines. There is no "antique value" in a Juki 5
I think the price for the 1541 is fair, but no "deal". Clutch or Servo motor? If the machine is "cherry" (and Servo) and you have extra needles and spare bobbins/presser feet, a parts book and operator's manual take it and run. If not, keep your cash in your pocket and haggle. Esp. if it's a clutch motor!
Quote from: bobbin on July 21, 2012, 09:21:46 am
I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a Juki 563.
I agree. But finding a rebuilt 563 from a dealer for less than $900 can be tough.
I also agree that $1200 for a 2 year old 1541 isn't anything to write home about.
But if it comes with extra goodies, it might be more enticing.
Teresa: I guess by now you've already test driven it. How'd it go?
Theresa:
Kodydog and I each bought a 563 for $ 400. We are both very happy with them. For $ 1,200 Bob Kovar can deliver a brand new Chandler to your door ready to sew. That includes table, servo motor, etc.
I am extremely happy with my Chandler and it is my main machine. The Juki is my back up and also set up to sew polyrod into awnings. The great thing about both of these machines is that the attachments are interchangeable. I can swap feet, bobbins, etc.
Get in touch with Bob and talk with him about a Chandler. See if he has any used machines around as well. $ 1,200 for a used 563 is way over the top.
Chris
Thanks everyone..
I canned the 563 (bobbin- the seller on that was Sloan Machinery).
I also passed on the Juki 1541 - more than I wanted to spend from a private party and he only gave me until today to drive up to Boston, check it out and transport it back home.
I spoke briefly to Bob on Saturday and need to call him back today. We talked about a used machine w/o a reverse, which doesn't bother me at all. I learned how to sew from my grandmother when I was 6 yrs. old on her industrial Singer- no reverse and the loudest motor I've ever heard.
Which brings me to my next conundrum....servo vs. clutch. Besides the Servo being quiet and perhaps an energy saver, isn't a clutch easier to customize for the intended user. I've read that servos don't last as long and even though they have a 'speed dial', they lose alot of power on the slow speed settings.
I guess it's no secret now that I tend to over-analyze things.
I also need a new compressor but I've already chosen that ......after days of research :-\
Mojo- Why did you choose the Chandler?
Teresa
I haven't noticed a loss in power with a servo at any speed. Clutch motors typically last more than 20 years. How long will these sub-$150 servos last? Not sure. I've had mine going on 3 years now. If they crapped out tomorrow, I'd still get another servo.
But if I went to work tomorrow in a shop full of clutch motors, I'd have no trouble re-adapting. One thing I learned though, I can't go back and forth from clutch to servo.
If you WERE prepared to pay $1200 for one of those used machines, I think you'd be happier spending close to that amount on a later model machine WITH reverse.
Wait for Mojo to chime in about the Chandler. I also remember Jack Carr saying that the Chandler will "do everything a Pfaff 1245 will do".
I have always sewn with a servo motor. For me they are smoother and I can control my work and speed more precisely. If you have never sewn on a commercial machine then you will find there is a learning curve associated with clutch motors. Many new sewers have problems with their jack rabbit starts. I sewed horribly on my Juki until I switched it to a servo. For others who have sewn on nothing but clutch motors they prefer those.
The reason I selected the Chandler was because it was 1.) a bottom load machine 2.) has a covered bobbin assembly ( ask Bob about this ) 3.) attachments are plentiful and very cheap 4.) is a big M bobbin machine and 5.) has a good reputation. They are built very well, are reliable, parts are everywhere and they will sew anything you throw at it. I still have not found anything it wont sew. It is not finicky with thread and I have sewn with every kind of thread you can think of with it from Tenara to 69 to 90 to 138 polys. It will also handle 207 as well.
I think the main reason why I bought it is because of Bob's recommendation. I laid everything out on the table for him and asked him which model he would select knowing I was on a budget, could not afford any downtime and wanted numerous attachments. He cut the list down to 2 - a Consew and the Chandler and basically said " the Chandler will do everything the Consew will but at a cheaper price ". There are a couple of us who have bought these Chandlers and we have had awesome luck with them.
I appreciated Bob's honesty with me. Many times dealers try and push a machine they got a good buy on and have a bigger margin with which is why they sell the heck out of certain models. Bob took a great deal of time explaining all the differences to me and for that I was grateful. His after the sale service has been phenomenal as well. He is always there for me whenever I have a question or issue.
In regards to the Consew and Chandler, have Bob tell you the funny story of the two brothers sometime. One owns Consew and the other owns Chandler. Pretty funny how the two cannot stand each other and wont speak to each other at trade shows. :)
Chris
Well, I just ordered a brand new Highlead from Gregg at Keystone. He's got a great price on the walking foot with large bobbin. Probably the same basic machine as Mojo's Chandler, but Gregg said he liked Highlead better. I have no experience with either so went with Gregg's advice. I'll let you all know how I like it when it gets here and I get to use it for a bit. The servo motor it comes with will be a brand new experience for me. I have 3 clutch driven machines and they're all a little different, but I can control them pretty well. In 7 years I've only run a finger through the works twice. :-\ No permanent damage and I've decided not to do that again.
Stay tuned...
June
I think you will like the servo June. I like the speed adjustment of them myself. I can dial it down to real slow when doing tough corners and turn it up when I am doing long stitch runs.
There are many people out there who have used nothing but clutch motors and they sew perfect with them. But I believe these are the stitchers that grew up and learned on clutch motors. I myself learned on a servo so I found the clutch motor a real headache for me. I just could not get good control using one.
I know nothing about the Highleads. I know Greg sells alot of them. I nearly bought one myself and was just about to pull the trigger on one but ended up getting the Chandler. I personally believe that most of the big industrial machines are all made well. Alot of times it comes down to the budget. :)
I have so many different feet that I would have gone broke duplicating them all. Thankfully the feet I have for my Chandler also works on my Juki. I know there were two machines I didn't want and those were Adler and Pfaff. Both are probably the best machines going but parts and attachments are outrageous.
If I had it to do all over again I would buy another Chandler. The machine has just been flawless. The only problems I have had I created myself. :)
Chris
This might require an answer from Bob Kovar or a vendor of equipment; question is:
In this discussion it has been said that an older machine like a Juki 563 would be less favored over a newer machine, even perhaps a new Chandler or Highlead. So, could someone with a profound understanding lay out the technology advantages of the new machines from China over the Juki 563 made in Japan technology?
This is a technology based question. Has the technology of the needle feed walking foot machine evolved to be superior in China products?
Are the China machines made as "knock off" technology or are they made from their own evolving technology that is superior to the Juki 563?
If I am correct, the Juki is a top vertical axis bobbin while the China machines are horizontal axis bottom loading bobbins, that could be a preference, I understand. But the technology and intrinsic value of he machine is what I mean my question to be centered on.
If I am correct again, do the China made (assembled?) machines literally use the same feed as the the Juki 563?
To further put things into perspective, the needle feed walking foot technology goes back years, somewhere to late 40's and if new machines today are still using the feed Singer equipped the 111W155/156, are they indeed copying the technology. Therefore, where is the age of the Juki 563 a negative? It could be a positive if the technology is the same or even better with the medal they used back then, do you understand where I am coming from. Age, then is not an issue, condition can be an issue with any machine.
I would like to hear Bob or Gregg or?, to talk to this, it would be interesting reading. Maybe some are talking new machines because they are so popular priced, coming from China assembly points? I am not sure if China makes the parts for their machines, may do, at least they assemble the products. In closing if the push for China machines is due to price then, I understand the merits of what is being suggested. Then, intuitively, I can assume it isn't because the machines are intrinsically better. The Juki products have carried a lot of respect all through my times.
In response, please hit on the notes; price, technology, and anything else that applies. I understand the condition aspect.
Interesting reading BTW,
Doyle
I'm not sure exactly when Juki dropped the 563 model and replaced it with the 1508. But I sewed for years with a 562, which I assume the only difference (from a 563) is bobbin size.
Once I got my 1508, the first thing that I noticed is that it would do about 3 stitches per inch at the widest setting, whereas my old 562 would do no better than 4.5 SPI. Did the later model 563's have more stitch length? I don't know.
My only concern for someone like Teresa buying a 563, is that it is more than likely at least 25 years old. And you have no way of knowing whether or not it has been properly maintained during that time.
But other than improved stitch length, a 25 year old Japanese Juki that has been well taken care of just might be a better machine than a brand new Chinese version of the same model. Although I sometimes wonder if the whole "poor Chinese quality" thing is just a bandwagon that we've all jumped on. We said the same thing about Japanese products in the 60's. Now we yearn for the good old days when stuff was made in Japan.
I am not a machine expert. I sew with them and if something goes wrong I fix it myself.
I personally believe the Juki 563 is a better machine ( Japanese made ) then the other models like the Chandler or Highlead. If memory serves me correctly there are only a couple machines being made in Japan anymore. Almost all production has been shipped to China. Even the German machines are being produced there now as Pfaff sent production there two years or so ago.
I bought my Juki cheap ( $ 400 ). That was complete with table and a new clutch motor. I am not a fan of top loaders myself but the Juki is an amazing sewer.
If you look at some of the machines, many look identical to one another. The only difference on some models tends to be paint and badging. It would not surprise me a bit to learn that many of the different machines are made on the same line.
I have forgotten which models are knock offs of other models but I know that many of the parts are interchangeable. A needle bar for one machine will fit on 10 different others. I bent the needle bar on my machine by accident and Bob sold me a needle bar designed for a Singer. It was a direct replacement. Feet are interchangeable on the Juki, Consew, Seiko and Chandler as are several of the attachments.
I could be wrong but I believe most industrial machines are now made in China and many are made in the same area. Maybe Greg or Bob can lend some knowledge here.
Chris
Ok,I'll voice my opinion.I feel the 563 is still a good machine & would say that one in good condition(not from a factory) should be worth $800.00+ because the 1508 that replaced it now sells for over $2,000.00.
Yes,the Juki is a copy of the old Singer 111w just a larger bobbin & reverse.
There's an uph shop just down the street from us & they've been in business for 40+yrs doing auto uph & just got a machine w/rev in 5 yrs ago.They've been using the old 111w & there's another shop in town that does furniture uph that has the old Singer 16 Class walking foot(they have 3 ) one has been their since day one 60 yrs ago & it came from the Jeep plant here in Toledo.They use each machine everyday w/o rev.So you really don't need all the bells & whistles to get the job done.
Yes,almost all the machines are made in China alot even from the same factory that will put any name on them you want.
Bob
My 2 cents... I just had my Juki 562 worked on (first time ever) since I bought it in 1983.. the mechanic replaced the hook, everything else is perfectly fine.. she runs as new as the day she was born. Don't discount these machines because of age. I also have one its Singer counterparts. A workhorse is a workhorse. ;)
To me, what Bob said only reaffirms what I said in my first reply.
$1200 is $300 too much for a dealer-rebuilt 563.
Bob: What year was the last 563 made?
QuoteMy 2 cents... I just had my Juki 562 worked on (first time ever) since I bought it in 1983.. the mechanic replaced the hook, everything else is perfectly fine.. she runs as new as the day she was born. Don't discount these machines because of age. I also have one its Singer counterparts. A workhorse is a workhorse
My experience also Cheryl, and to add; I just love all those OEM attachments (feet) that I bought back then.
A friend also in our type of business has some Pfaff machines and will pick up an OEM Pfaff attachment now and then when the opportunity arises. He has noted a difference between generic. He commented just last week, that the OEM feet are getting harder to find. Understandable, I suppose.
Doyle
Thanks for your comments Bob.
I can identify with your class 16 comments. Would you believe that if a convertible top (this would be a very old convertible BTW) job comes up, at a friends shop, he has one that he said is identical to what factories used for convertible top manufacturing back in the 30's until when? But the friend will use his Singer 16 series, wish I could remember the full nomenclature, to do a custom converible top today. I test sewed on it and it has the power! He says there is no problem obtaining parts, has't bought much of anything except needles and tension stuff.
Doyle
Most of my work-life was in technology, including about 20-years working with Asia, including almost 10-years in Japan. Japan exploited quality US-developed quality control. A classic example was with Ford transmissions built to the same specifications in the US and Japan.
http://www.flexstudy.com/catalog/schpdf.cfm?coursenum=9529a
"Ford and Mazda were producing identical transmission components in the United States and Japan using the same blueprints, equipment, and processes. The Ford assemblies were experiencing a higher rate of field failures. Upon examining the critical dimensions produced by the Ford plant, all were found to be within acceptable tolerances. However, upon examining the Mazda-built components, nearly all were precisely on target with almost no variation within the allowable tolerance. The explanation is that in mechanical assemblies, excessive variation from design targets causes premature wear, eventually resulting in early field failure."
Just saying why I decided on a Juki.
sofadoc,
I think they quit the 563's in 2000.
Bob
Just saying why I decided on a Juki.
What you just said, the philosophy of the Japanese worker is do a job that doesn't reflect bad work, was the thrust of an article that appeared in our newpaper withing a few days ago.
Their cars back in the late 50's and somewhat in the 60's were cheap but not great cars. They rusted as bad as any. But, look where they are today! That pride attitude has brought them to the top of the pile. Usually a product from Japan or Germany are quality and a bit pricey, their standards in Japan have changed, it appears. Some off the cuff remarks from many is; give China time and they will be on top of the pile also, they may not be where they will end up in time.
So, there is reason, probably survival, for the US to get things in gear and back to producing quality jobs first! Otherwise it won't be very good at the bottom of the pile.
What happened?
Doyle
They are somehow good. But come to think what you really want and why.
Hey Tejas,
That Ford transmission plant was near me, in Batavia, OH. The street name was 'Front Wheel Drive'. Koolist street name ever.
I took a statistical analysis class taught by a guy from GE who was involved with this issue. He said what they found was that American workers manufactured within tolerances, and Japanese workers manufactured for perfection. If the tolerances were +- .002, the Americans would set the lathe bit in - .002 and as the work shift went on the lathe bit would wear down and the lathe bit would eventually be cutting at +.002 and the worker would then adjust the lathe bit back to -.002.
The Japanese worker would set the lathe bit at .000 and constantly adjust the lathe bit to remain at .000.
I liked the comment in the article from 1979 that said quality is free. Someone on this board said, "How can you have the time and money to fix it when you didn't have the time and money to do it right the first time?"
Quality: "ability to satisfy given needs". We've talked a lot about this on this board. When is good enough "good enough"?
I have a Juki 562 that I absolutely love.
gene
Time is money. American factories don't have the time to waste trying to get the tolerances just right. Japanese factories do have the time because they aren't paying their employees as much.
Just a hunch, I have absolutely no first hand knowledge or statistical data to back up my wild hypothesis. ;D
So are you guys saying that if you had a choice of a 20 year old Japanese made machine, or a brand new Chinese model.......both in the $1000-$1200 range........you would take the older one?
I sewed on a 562 for over 20 years. Great machine. The only reason that I replaced it was because I stumbled up on a LU-1508 on Craigslist for $375. So I love the older Jukis as much as anyone. But I ain't paying a grand for one.
If you are as old as I am, you can remember in the 50s and 60s when "Made in Japan" meant junk stuff.
Post WWII there was an American quality expert that helped rebuild Japan's economy. He was treated like a god in Japan but largely ignored by US industry, though a few companies jumped on board in the 80s and 90s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
Some of his gems:
to the question above: Acceptable Defects: Rather than waste efforts on zero-defect goals, Deming stressed the importance of establishing a level of variation, or anomalies, acceptable to the recipient (or customer) in the next phase of a process. Often, some defects are quite acceptable, and efforts to remove all defects would be an excessive waste of time and money.
Eliminate slogans, exhortations, and targets for the work force asking for zero defects and new levels of productivity. Such exhortations only create adversarial relationships, as the bulk of the causes of low quality and low productivity belong to the system and thus lie beyond the power of the work force. (remember such slogans as "Quality is Job 1?")
The company I worked for at the time kept sticking its toe in these waters (generally until financial crunches appeared, usually every 2-3 years) and some parts/localities worked at ISO certification. That, IMO, was first to document things to make sure you do things consistently, then you can improve on them. In other words, you can't improve what you don't do the same way all the time.
In my high school days, I had a brief "career" in the high flyin' world of muffler manufacturing. The company made OEM mufflers for the major American made cars.
We had tolerances to abide by. The ones that met those tolerances were shipped out to Ford, GM, or Chrysler. The ones that didn't quite meet the specs were sent to after-market suppliers such as NAPA, Sears, or Monkey Wards.
I suspect that the same system still exists today for generic welt feet, and other sewing machine parts. Again, just another wild hypothesis on my part. ;)
In the 60's, Japanese products were the joke of most any industry. By the late 70's, they had almost completely turned that reputation around.
I was working at Texas Instruments in the early 80's. They were trying to instill the Japanese work ethic on us by teaching their methods and policies. All we got from it was that they were trying to get the most amount of productivity for the least amount of pay. Needless to say, it went over like a lead balloon.
And eventually, the Japanese workers rebelled as well.
That's why China is the new Japan.
OK. I just had a birthday so I will lament my getting old by saying that I don't think anyone is as old as byhammerandhand.
There are blue monkeys that live on one of the moons of Saturn, probably Titus, that control the world economy. This is one of my wild hypotheses.
Edward Deming's business models helped to make an island nation with no natural resources a global manufacturing power.
I don't know if Japan could have done anything in light of China's cheap labor.
One of Demings' core premises was that a company should make decisions based on what was best for the workers. If the company did this, then the company would survive and the workers would continue to have jobs. Japan stopped doing this in the 1990's when they became more American and started going after the quick financial gain irregardless of how it affected the company or the workers.
China has nothing to do with Deming's work models. China is about exploiting cheap labor with no regards to the environmental and health effects it is having.
China is more about the all mighty dollar than the USA ever was.
Just my thoughts after a long day. I am finally get quite good at nailing decorative tacks.
gene
Happy Birthday, Gene, despite your snide comment.
As a side note, I got together with most of my cousins on my dad's side and my sisters. We reviewed some old family photos (many in the late 19th century). Told stories about what we knew. And we marveled at how much we have all come to look like one relative or the other that was not so obvious when we were young. Times seem to have been a lot harder back then (most of my ancestors were farmers, up to and including my father and uncle).
One thing that I think about when it comes to auto manufacturing is the warranties. Remember when the Korean cars were nothing but junk ? They turned their quality programs around and now offer the best warranties in the car business. Yet Ford and GM has yet to match their warranties. How can one car maker offer exceptional warranties and the others wont ? Lack of confidence in their product ?
There are companies who will manufacture a product knowing it has suspect parts and components but they find it cheaper to fix some of the failed products under warranty then to make them right the first time off the factory floor. I think many of you see this with furniture these days.
It seems like there is a lack of pride in products these days. The products I make are probably over manufactured by most standards but my pride will not allow me to make them any other way. I also offer the best warranty among my competitors, simply because I believe in my product.
Chris
Quote from: Mojo on August 05, 2012, 06:37:03 am
There are companies who will manufacture a product knowing it has suspect parts and components but they find it cheaper to fix some of the failed products under warranty then to make them right the first time off the factory floor. I think many of you see this with furniture these days.
Furniture makers don't really even want to fix them under warranty. They just want you to trash it, and buy another one. And that's exactly what most people do.
La-Z-Boy used to make a recliner that would (with a few recoverings) last over 25 years.
Then they figured out that if they only make them to last a few years, they'll sell a lot more of them to the same customer over the duration of his lifetime.
In the early 60's, Johnson & Johnson Co. figured out a way to nearly double sales of their shampoo. All they had to do was add one word to the directions:
1) Lather
2) Rinse
3) REPEATSame principle here. Build a product that the customer will have to replace sooner, and you'll increase your revenue by leaps and bounds.
Are we going to see the disposable industrial sewing machine in our lifetime?
You bring up a good point Dennis.
Think back to when we were kids. A toaster or coffee pot broke and your Mom or Dad took it to a fix it shop. Now when something breaks it gets tossed into the trash and a trip to Walmart and $ 20 bucks replaces it.
Isn't it frigging amazing how we have turned into a disposable society ? Something breaks and we throw it away and buy new. Microwaves, TV's, coffee pots, toasters, furniture, etc....etc... My neighbor is an appliance repairman. He fixes appliances as well as TV's. I am amazed he is still in business but then if you have a circuit board that just went in a 60 " plasma TV I guess you would want to spend the bucks for a new circuit board or whatever.
It blows my mind how we have developed this disposable society. Hell we have even reached that point with marriages. If it doesn't work out you throw your spouse out and go get a new one. :(
Chris
When I first got married, we bought a microwave oven from the local mom & pop appliance store. The damn thing must've weighed over 100 lbs. The bank sent me a payment book. For 18 months, I tore a page out of that book, and sent 30 bucks to the bank.
When I applied for loans, I listed that microwave as an asset. ;D
It lasted us 15 years. When it quit working, the repairman said that it would cost $600 to fix it. By then, you could get one with lots more whistles and bells for about $100.
I always laugh when I see one at a garage sale for 50-75 bucks. I can get a new one cheaper at Wally World.
LOL, this thread is all over the map. Quality control and statistical analysis and throw away, consumer marketing, and more, take your pick.
This stuff is easier to understand if separated into different pots.
Regarding throw away items, first of all would a producer/marketer be able to stay in business if no one bought their items? Who is to blame?
Another variable on "throw away", who would want an old item repaired today, for example, TV, if newer technology provides a better product for less? Duh! Another classic example of this is computers. Repair a ten year old computer?
Computers aren't being thrown away because manufacturers want us to buy a new one.........are we forced to throw them away and are buying a lesser computer? Technology!
Quality control is a different issue than marketing something today versus yesterday. Quality control is a vital concern to any product.
More specifically, industrial sewing machines is probably an issue of comparing a specific item made when with the same marketed item today made for that purpose.
If the new technology will work better for some while; perhaps, and older machine better for others, who is right? Better, which is right for you and is it necessarily better for them? Depends on the product doesn't it, I use the 10 year old computer as an example, while a pair of new versus old shears (both in new condition or different brands) might sway a different decision.
Good luck in your machine decision.
Doyle
Still on topic drift:
One call today was in a gated community, golf course embedded, probably $800K+ Gableopolis house. Owner just bought a bunch of new furniture upon move in. He was shocked at the quality and the fact that it was all made in Vietnam, after all, it was from a company in North Carolina. I didn't tell him, but this particular line gets about 80% of the repair service at or before delivery, even though it makes up a small % of product sold at this store. ( name is a girl's name that rhymes with "Ashlee")
When one company starts outsourcing the manufacturing or even a major portion of it, the price of the item becomes very competitive and other vendors are forced to do the same to be competitive.
It has been suggested that the marketing of cheap foreign furniture will eventually die as a practice.
Do any of our readers believe this? Not sure I do. Consumers are the drivers of this activity because price sells! At least in larger numbers.
Doyle
I don't know. Back in the 1960's we became accustomed to the "planned obsolescence" of autos. I remember when we were ready to trade in after 3 years and if you bought a three year old used car, you might expect it to last another three. 100,000 miles was fairly unheard of. Then we got better quality and now 100K is just barely broken in. Heck, it doesn't even need a new set of spark plugs until 100K. Now the AVERAGE age is 10.8 years (meaning half of them are OLDER than this). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/17/average-age-of-vehicles-_n_1210443.html
I see people that really want to re-decorate after 5-7 years. Good because that's about the life of some of the new stuff.
In the 60's cars were relatively cheap, not today. Which leads to the question why are people keeping their cars longer? Heck, they are financing them longer, back in the 60's, a three year loan was about the longest I heard of.
What are the longest loan times now? Is it about 5 years?
We can't, as a consumer afford to throw away a car in 6 years because of this and their price. Cars haven't come down any especially like furiture. Shucks, I remember 30 years ago, plus or minus, when people spent between 500 to a 1000 bucks for a couch. If they have to spend that today, it is often heard, "why I spend $800 bucks for that couch and it is tearing apart already". Decorating with a new couch today is about like having a glass of water and calling it a party. Furniture today isn't decorating, one person's is like a million others. A shopper today has fewer selections and colors in the popular priced category.
Furniture is not valued like a big screen today. Further it isn't valued by the user like it was in the 60's. Budgets are spread over a lot more things today, fewer consumers can affort all they consume today, a high end piece of upholstery today does not fit their pocket books. So, will values change and bring back demand for high end furniture? Not wihing these generations, I am betting.
There is nothing new except change and it is constantly changing, to what!!!
I don't know the answer, but the new thing I recently saw in a furniture store was a 92 inch big screen and it sat on a stand made in vietnam (about a $50 table). Go figure.
Doyle
My personal 2 cents... I only had my own Juki 562 labored on (first time period ever) since i have bought the idea in 1983.. the actual mechanic changed the lift, everything different is correctly fine.. she works as new because the day she was created. Don't low cost these machines because of age. I likewise have one the Singer counterparts. A workhorse is usually a workhorse.