Hull and Headliner advice

[forsailbyowner]

Gotta job coming up on a 30' hunter power boat. It involves tearing out the owners failed attempt at covering the hull/headliner carpet with vinyl. After I remove carpet and vinyl I will be looking at rough fiberglass roving pattern.I've turned down work like this before but this one doesn't have any recessed compound curves so I thought I'd give it a go. Question 1. What kind of prepwork needs to be done tothe rough glass. Question 2. What kind of liner will get the best results and which won't be suitable? Question 3). What adhesive is proper and application methods? Question 4). The vberth overhead pieces are rather large and I'm picturing having a time installing them. and how th treat joint in liner. Any other tips and tricks would be highly appreciated. Thanks much

[JuneC]

The Ted Hood I did using regular marine seating vinyl the owner picked.  I sent it out to get 1/4" foam laminated to it and glued it to the luan panels (no invention required, thank goodness ;D ).  I glued the new foam/vinyl to the luan using Dap Weldwood Landau Top and Trim adhesive.  Prep involved stripping off ALL the old, dried up glue using a wire wheel on a drill.  That part took forever...  Pics here:

      http://www.harborcushions.com/projects_sailboats.html

I did a Formula 400SS in Naugahyde vinyl using foam/glue on the hull and whisper walls track (already installed)  on the headliner.  Cleaning off the old glue was again the biggest headache.  You can see the black, gooey mess that the rotted foam and adhesive left.  On this one I used Keyston High Strength spray cans (holds up to heat really well) to put up 1/2" of high density foam, then the vinyl.  The headliner track can be bought from TriVantage if you wanted to try this method.  The Formula was a BIG job requiring complete removal of portholes, bulkheads, stairs, cabinets, and stuff I can't remember now...

     http://www.harborcushions.com/projects_largeryachts.html

Good luck with it! 

[scarab29]

I think jennis has hull liner vinyl with the 1/2 foam already on it. Sure  olther like miami mike do too !

[forsailbyowner]

I've got sample cards coming from manart and miamicorp. I've seen a couple of failed glued on foam back liners(ones I turned down). Really want to avoid this. I'm seeing quite less than a hundred percent contact with the pebbled texture of the glass. Would a hi web adhesive help with this.I'm thinking both the glass and liner will need to be coated. Then alignment marks put toward the center of the liner so I can work from center out? The edges I looked at were tucked under the fiberglass liner which extends down the coachroof to where the deck flattens till it meets the gunwhale. At that point the liner will be tucked into a wiring gallery.

[Peppy]

I'm not sure that Ennis does carry  foam backed vinyl. I know they carry foam backed cloth like you see in cars.

I've done 2 big vinyl and foam headliner jobs. A 30'something Sundancer and a similar Tiara. Both had normal fuzzy stretchy headliner (the name of which escapes me) and the customers wanted vinyl and foam. Ripping it down was easy, had at it with a wire brush if it didn't budge I didn't worry to much about it. Any seams we French seamed. We laminated the foam and vinyl ourselves and were sure to really lay it on and let it tack up before sticking it together. We had two guys spraying glue. We used normal foam and fabric adhesive. Green stuff, smells like death.

On the boat I drew a seam line and a center line. I started at the seam and worked forward and back. Be very careful not to press to hard while it's still wet you can glue the vinyl to the boat through the foam and leave hand prints. You can let the foam and vinyl sit for a while to lessen this happening. And try to find a high density foam.

I'm sure we broke all the rules and used the wrong materials but it's been 7 and 5 years and they are still happy customers.

These jobs were absolute hell. I hated every second of them. We lost a lot of money on the first one and it was a slow year on the second one. I would sooner take the winter off than do it again. I might do it if it was that fuzzy stretchy stuff...

It can be done though. Good luck!

[forsailbyowner]

Thanks that's good stuff. Don't know how ill do on this but I quoted eight hundred  for the labor plus material and he didn't balk. Figured it came in under 20 yards depending on roll width

[Mike]

I got some vinyl with 1/4" foam from miami i dont knkw it kts still available.
I loke and use s-18 glue for any carpet or hulliner jobs  my lasjob was a 35' old cruiser  80s. V berth cabin small bunkbed stateroom head and center hallway. Walls only.
After i started the oender figured he could do it himself the wire wherel. Keaning the onl off was the hard time consuming part   Along with canvas work i gave him a price i. Couldnt pass up when they signed the line.
Like peppy though i dont wan to have another unless it is mymown boat.

[DBR1957]

I won't do headliners anymore but if I did my starting price would be $5000 (not a typo).

Prepping is remove all cushions, personal effects, tape and plastic over anything you don't
want glue on, wire brush, acetone, elbow grease and a sore back and neck!

Foam backed vinyl is readily available. Manart carries foam backed Seaquest. The Geometric
fuzzy hulliner is mush easier to work with and hides imperfections but doesn't look as nice.

As far as adhesive goes, use automotive vinyl top adhesive sprayed from a spray gun
or 3M Super 90 in the can. I WOULDN"T USE ANYTHING ELSE! These two will spray out
in a fan with a stringy consistency and you have great control over where the glue
goes. Everything else I have tried sprays out in a mist and goes everywhere. Plus the
holding ability is inferior.

While applying glue to fabric there is a balance of getting enough on but not so much it soaks
into the fabric or foam. Those places will become obvious in the finished product.

Draw a centerline front to back and work form that line out to the sides.

VENTILATE! VENTILATE! VENTILATE!

[JuneC]

"Hunter power boat"??  I thought Hunter made only sailboats.  I was thinking along the lines of maybe $2000 for labor, sight-unseen.  If there's lots of "things" to work around, that price could be a lot more.  The transitions (hullliner to cabinets/sole/frames) will kill your hours.

June

[forsailbyowner]

I always seem to pay dearly for learning experiences. Its the first hunter powerboat I've seen too. Looks like a sailboat hull with a chevy 350 engine in it. Why is my question. His hunter uses 8 gallons per hour to get 10kts while my 33' sail does 6kts at less than a half gallon per hour motoring. Paying big  for that extra 4kts. I wouldn't have taken it if it didn't look pretty straightforward. There isn't much of anything to cut around. One side gets tucked into a blind corner and the other under the fiberglass partial liner. I know I'm gonna regret getting into this after seeing what you guys/gals charge

[rustyeod]

DB I m with you.  I did two headliners (my first) at the same time and wll never do them again.  I definatly understimated the time to do it (it should have been double).  Customers were happy but I did some heavy drinking that week.  And Ventilate is the word when you are spraying that glue.  I had a respirator and didn't realize how bad it was until I removed it. 

[forsailbyowner]

Met with client today and showed him sample cards that arrived with another order from miamicorp. He chose the perforated foam back. The foam is thin like 1/8". Left option open to maybe layer a thin hi density ex firm foam to bridge imperfections depending what I'm. Looking at when the carpet comes off.

[JuneC]

Additional foam is always valuable as an insulator, even if the hull is very smooth.  And Rusty's right about ventilation.  We had a boat in the boatyard about 7 or 8 months ago that burned to the waterline (owner, DIY, set off glue fumes with an electric fan trying to clear the cabin air). 

June

[mroy559]

I do think jennis provides hull boat vinyl while using the 1/2 polyurethane foam already on it. Sure olther including miami robert do also!